ST XTA coilovers (rebound adjustable, with camber top mounts front)

[Tor]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

What is your source on this info and how confident are you on it? KW customer support told me, "We are moving away from inserts on ST and V1s. still the same valving just wet filled now." That may corroborate your info.

I have the original version of ST coilovers for the 86. What annoys me is this past year creaking/clunking started to develop and did not go away after retorquing everything. Also took months for the height to fully settle (had to raise it 3 times because height kept drooping). Thinking of getting the new GReddy X KW coilovers. But exterior construction looks too similar to my ST and makes me hesitant I will get the same drooping and noise issues. In that case, I will bite the bullet for TRD coilovers (a bit pricey but their parts have never given me problems for over a decade on multiple platforms).

The exterior construction of the XTA is 100% identical with KW V3. The internals, are wet filled which you can see in the video in post 11. Here you see the whole assembly of an ST XA damper, T just means front Top mounts included.

I didn't have the V1 in my hands, but as you said. KW themselves confirmed it for you that they use inserts. That inserts are from Al-ko I have from the German GT86 forum.

The Greddy dampers look identical to the XTA. If choosing between those, I would go for the Greddy due to the 6/7 spring rates and leave the swaybars stock.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Tor

The exterior construction of the XTA is 100% identical with KW V3. The internals, are wet filled which you can see in the video in post 11. Here you see the whole assembly of an ST XA damper, T just means front Top mounts included.

I didn't have the V1 in my hands, but as you said. KW themselves confirmed it for you that they use inserts. That inserts are from Al-ko I have from the German GT86 forum.

The Greddy dampers look identical to the XTA. If choosing between those, I would go for the Greddy due to the 6/7 spring rates and leave the swaybars stock.

Actually KW confirmed current ST and V1 models are revised to wet filled now. Their older models for our cars were dry inserts and no longer being sold. Based on that, would you say the new wet filled models are not from AL-KO but made in the same factory as the rest of their higher end product line?

[Tor]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Actually KW confirmed current ST and V1 models are revised to wet filled now. Their older models for our cars were dry inserts and no longer being sold. Based on that, would you say the new wet filled models are not from AL-KO but made in the same factory as the rest of their higher end product line?

I see, I misread it as they would change in the future. Sorry, can't answer that question with anything but guesses. It would make sense though that they do it in-house in that case. Did say how long ago it is that they made that switch?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Tor

The exterior construction of the XTA is 100% identical with KW V3.

Except for the finish (inox stainless steel for KW). That's a big concern for salted roads here.

- Andrew

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Except for the finish (inox stainless steel for KW). That's a big concern for salted roads here.

Yes, it was wrt to switchlanez's question. I did mention that otherwise both in the video and in previous posts.

I sprayed my XTAs with grease. So far they look like new (greasy ) coilovers, driving them over the summer and fall.

I am not so sure it's such a big problem though considering the price. Probably the dampers will be shot long before rust becomes a major issue. For the price, I consider them a discardable once the dampers need rebuilding.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Did you get most of the front camber from the slot on the shock body or from the camber plate? I'm thinking if I should go for the regular coils or the XTA, especially now that they seem to use the same wet fill cartridge. I've had both on.my BMWs, ST X on my E92, and ST XTA on my E46. The XTA was too harsh for DD IMO and I did not take advantage of the rebound adjustment enough to warrant it. I'm not after a big drop either(~15mm). My only worry is getting enough camber up front without the plates. If that's no problem, I would rather spend the difference on sway bars.

Originally Posted by Tor

An update on the XTAs, I now had them on track:

My full mod list is in my build thread.

Relevant thing for the handling are:
- Suspension Technologies ST XTA coilovers
- Suspension Technologies anti-swaybars
- Pirelli P Zero Nero GT 225x40R18 (street tires)

Setup is -2.5 deg camber front and -1.8 in the rear, with very slight toe-in all round. Swaybars in their soft setting and the dampers in a soft rebound setting 9/16. With that setup the car is neutral biased towards oversteer - the stock understeer at speed is completely gone.

The 6 kg/mm front, 5 kg/mm rear springs absolutely doesn't make the car understeer. It actually caught me by surprise on the very first lap.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Did you get most of the front camber from the slot on the shock body or from the camber plate? I'm thinking if I should go for the regular coils or the XTA, especially now that they seem to use the same wet fill cartridge. I've had both on.my BMWs, ST X on my E92, and ST XTA on my E46. The XTA was too harsh for DD IMO and I did not take advantage of the rebound adjustment enough to warrant it. I'm not after a big drop either(~15mm). My only worry is getting enough camber up front without the plates. If that's no problem, I would rather spend the difference on sway bars.

Most of the camber I got from the slot and with OEM crash bolts. About 2 deg I think. The rest from the top mounts.

The rest of your message I am having difficulty to read. Which "regular coilovers" do you mean? If you mean the ST (without XTA), then the dampers are not the same at all. There is no cartridge in the XTAs.

After owning the XTAs for some time now, my main complaint is the lack of compression adjustability. For track, I would really have liked to have that option now.

Hence, after all... I wouldn't recommend the XTA any longer. If looking for something for a street driven car, go for something that is more comfortable. KW V3 or Tein or something like that.

For track, something higher end. Or as entry level minimum KW V3 level and upwards (You live and learn).

[Yoshoobaroo]

Sorry about the confusion there. By regular coilovers I meant the basic ST coilovers (ST X is the right name I think). When I typed cartridge I didn't mean that word haha. I meant that since the ST X are now wet fill, like the XTA (if I understood that right), there is not much benefit to the XTAs besides the spring rates, rebound adjustment, and camber plates. To top it off, the ST X should be more comfortable with the 4kg/mm spring up front vs the 6kg/mm in the XTA.

If you'd recommend the V3, then I think the ST X should be a good bet since they share spring rates with the V1/V2/V3, but they're much cheaper.

Thanks for the info on the camber! I think I'll go with the ST X coilovers and the ST sway bars.

Originally Posted by Tor

Most of the camber I got from the slot and with OEM crash bolts. About 2 deg I think. The rest from the top mounts.

The rest of you message I am having difficult to read. Which "regular coilovers" do you mean? If you mean the ST (without XTA), then the dampers are not the same at all. There is no cartridge in the XTAs.

After owning the XTAs for some time now, my main complaint is the lack of compression adjustability. For track, I don't think they have enough compression dampening.

Hence, after all... I wouldn't recommend the XTA any longer. If looking for something for a street driven car, go for something that is more comfortable. KW V3 or Tein or something like that.

For track, something higher end. Or as entry level minimum KW V3 level and upwards (You live and learn).

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Sorry about the confusion there. By regular coilovers I meant the basic ST coilovers (ST X is the right name I think). When I typed cartridge I didn't mean that word haha. I meant that since the ST X are now wet fill, like the XTA (if I understood that right)...

Ah yes, I forgot that the ST X allegedly should have KW in-house made dampers now. I don't know if that is true.

there is not much benefit to the XTAs besides the spring rates, rebound adjustment, and camber plates.

That's still a few good benefit....

To top it off, the ST X should be more comfortable with the 4kg/mm spring up front vs the 6kg/mm in the XTA.

...but probably correct, if this is your priority.

If you'd recommend the V3, then I think the ST X should be a good bet since they share spring rates with the V1/V2/V3, but they're much cheaper.

Perhaps, but still depends on how they preset the dampers. I know from locals here that the V3 is very flexible in their adjustments. Probably I will replace my XTA's with either V3 or Clubsports down the line.

Thanks for the info on the camber! I think I'll go with the ST X coilovers and the ST sway bars.

My choice is limited here, as every part I install on the car needs technical approval (TÜV approval, if you heard about that). With so many choices and no restrictions, why ST and not e.g. Tein?

[Yoshoobaroo]

The Teins have higher spring rates 6/6 in their soft setup and 7/7 on the track focused one. ST X springs are 50% stiffer than OEM, that seems like a nice increase, but not too much for comfort. The other reason is that if I'm going for one of the $1000 coilovers setups, I'll take the one that is TUV certified (I grew up in Belgium, so I'm familiar with TUV). As far as I know, ST is the only budget coilover kit that is.

Originally Posted by Tor

My choice is limited here, as every part I install on the car needs technical approval (TÜV approval, if you heard about that). With so many choices and no restrictions, why ST and not e.g. Tein?

[Qc86]

Bringing old tread back, noob question, compare to other coilovers how do you adjust the height? From what i see the preload of the spring would be affected or is it only the helper spring that does the work? Looking between this and the fortune auto 6 series with roller bearing. Only concern is that the st doesnt have the roller bearing and spring rate is a little bit softer. Looking to do DD, but more autocross and time attack oriented

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Qc86

Bringing old tread back, noob question, compare to other coilovers how do you adjust the height? From what i see the preload of the spring would be affected or is it only the helper spring that does the work? Looking between this and the fortune auto 6 series with roller bearing. Only concern is that the st doesnt have the roller bearing and spring rate is a little bit softer. Looking to do DD, but more autocross and time attack oriented

What does preload even mean? Of what value does it add?

To answer your question, yes the spring will be 'loose' when the car is in the air if you decide to lower it. You are basically moving the spring perch and as such altering the 'preload' of the spring for lack of a better descriptor. In this car it is common for this design to have essentially 'zero pre-load' on the main spring when the car is off the ground and the suspension is at full droop unless a softer progressive rate spring is used like say on Bilstein B14/B16.

The tender ("helper") spring is super soft and doesn't do anything other than keep the main spring from rattling around when the car is off the ground. With the car on the ground they will be fully compressed and solid.

I don't think you will go wrong with one kit vs the other from where you're at, just don't expect either to be the perfect setup as you go down the path of learning to drive the car at it's limits and tinker to improve it. Seriously, either one will do fine if you must have them. Maybe ask locally if there's someone with one or the other you can ride in, that may be the deciding factor and is a great deal more informative than just about ANY forum post.

I'd highly reccommend going to autox and track day with the suspension stock before you toss it out in case you haven't already, closing in on 3 years autocrossing and I still have much to learn from the stock 86 but dove into modifying too early.