BRZ Inventory

[lowlevel]

Originally Posted by ToySub1946

For the 2017 MY, the 86 costs $805 more than a BRZ Premium (USA models).

Not sure just why they did that ??

So, for me, if I were in the market, it'd be BRZ to save a few bucks.


Really, also not sure if both cars have exactly the same equipment ? Other than dissimilar bumpers and interior looks, do they each have the same radio, etc ? In other words, would their cost to build be about the same, 86, or BRZ ?

Not sure why Toyota is asking for more money either... BRZ is arguably better looking and better equipped ... I went with the Toyota. I didnt want dual zone climate or leather... they annoy and frustrate me in my other car...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86

When you say production, do you mean construction or do you mean sales? I ask because I was pretty sure Subaru was producing/building/constructing all varieties of the twins.

If I had to guess I would say Subaru acquired Toyota tech, and Subaru may get a slice of the sales of each frs/86 sold, considering they are supplying the power train and are building the cars. Toyota owns 16.5% shares of FHI, so profit sharing is built into the system already. It may be in both of their interests for Toyota to keep selling in many of the markets Toyota dominates. Lastly, considering the price is cheaper for the frs/86 for most markets, the sales should be higher for them than the brz considering most who buy are looking to modify the car heavy, or are younger and looking to get into something that is cheap and fun.

Subaru Builds them all in one plant side by side and even staggered on the lines. By production I just mean that they build more of the 86 in that plant. The mix would have been agreed to years ago before the car was even built.

Yes it was a joint effort and both companies paid the R&D costs. They really aren't "supplying" the power train anymore than the rest of the car. They will not be getting a slice of the profits either. Toyota will simply pay them for the completed cars the same way they would buy tires or trannys if they were building them themselves. There is very little profit to be had with these cars since it is a low margin low volume build.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking the Toyotas are or were cheaper than the BRZs. They really were only cheaper here since the Scion business plan only had one trim level and kept cost as low as possible. The 86s around the rest of the world where there were more trim levels cost as much or even more as the BRZs. Now that they are Toyotas we will eventually see more trim levels here that will cost as much as the BRZ. Hell in Canada the newly badged 86 already does. The 86 is not a "cheaper" version of the BRZ it was just the Scion that was.

I think you will find that most of the people buying these cars are not looking to modify heavily nor are younger. There are a good number yes but I will bet you a beer that "most" of these cars will remain bone stock or be very lightly modified and are owned by a much larger age range than you would think. This forum is deceiving since it makes it appear that most want to modify but if even 1/2 of the registered users here actually own one (I think that number is optimistic) then we are still only talking about 10% of the cars sold. For every young guy doing a major mod there are 3 or 4 normal Joe and Jane Publics driving around stock. This mix will change though as the used ones get cheaper and more younger guys can afford them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by lowlevel

Not sure why Toyota is asking for more money either... BRZ is arguably better looking and better equipped ... I went with the Toyota. I didnt want dual zone climate or leather... they annoy and frustrate me in my other car...

"Better looking" is totally subjective but I think the answer to why are they charging more money is simply because they can.

[Irace86]

Originally Posted by why?

Subaru makes all the 86's.

They make about 10 times more Toyotas than Subarus.

Which makes sense because Toyota's world wide sales are almost exactly ten times more than Subaru's.

[Irace86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Subaru Builds them all in one plant side by side and even staggered on the lines. By production I just mean that they build more of the 86 in that plant. The mix would have been agreed to years ago before the car was even built.

Yes it was a joint effort and both companies paid the R&D costs. They really aren't "supplying" the power train anymore than the rest of the car. They will not be getting a slice of the profits either. Toyota will simply pay them for the completed cars the same way they would buy tires or trannys if they were building them themselves. There is very little profit to be had with these cars since it is a low margin low volume build.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking the Toyotas are or were cheaper than the BRZs. They really were only cheaper here since the Scion business plan only had one trim level and kept cost as low as possible. The 86s around the rest of the world where there were more trim levels cost as much or even more as the BRZs. Now that they are Toyotas we will eventually see more trim levels here that will cost as much as the BRZ. Hell in Canada the newly badged 86 already does. The 86 is not a "cheaper" version of the BRZ it was just the Scion that was.

I think you will find that most of the people buying these cars are not looking to modify heavily nor are younger. There are a good number yes but I will bet you a beer that "most" of these cars will remain bone stock or be very lightly modified and are owned by a much larger age range than you would think. This forum is deceiving since it makes it appear that most want to modify but if even 1/2 of the registered users here actually own one (I think that number is optimistic) then we are still only talking about 10% of the cars sold. For every young guy doing a major mod there are 3 or 4 normal Joe and Jane Publics driving around stock. This mix will change though as the used ones get cheaper and more younger guys can afford them.

Cheaper because they come less equipped was my point. Are you saying they are not available at a less equipped level in other countries? Or are you saying Subaru's come just as, or far less, equipped in other parts of the world?

I still think the reason they sold more frs' than brz's here was the lower entry price. That is attractive to budget friendly buyers and for anyone who wants the car for the thrills and not for the luxuries. I figure the old men will buy the BRZ for the butt warmers and fuzzy seats for the big rears, the navigation so they don't get lost, and dual climate control for their nagging old ladies.

[wbradley]

Toyota sells more because they have 10x the distribution network.

Seems to me in Canada the 86 price is inflated vs. BRZ price considering relative content. Perhaps Toyota plans to offer other incentives. Otherwise they are working on higher margin than Subaru by the looks of it. Still, I agree with tcoat that this car isn't a big money maker overall. Perhaps higher trim levels will command significantly more money on future models.

I'd like to see what Toyota or Subaru could offer for say $35K-40K CDN (or maybe around $30K US.). Maybe because I sense the new Supra will be out of my league. Who am I kidding, I'd never sell my FR-S!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86

Cheaper because they come less equipped was my point. Are you saying they are not available at a less equipped level in other countries? Or are you saying Subaru's come just as, or far less, equipped in other parts of the world?

I still think the reason they sold more frs' than brz's here was the lower entry price. That is attractive to budget friendly buyers and for anyone who wants the car for the thrills and not for the luxuries. I figure the old men will buy the BRZ for the butt warmers and fuzzy seats for the big rears, the navigation so they don't get lost, and dual climate control for their nagging old ladies.

There are base models and higher trim models in all the other markets.

No they sold more because they made more. They made more because that was what they planned to do. That was the same in all the markets everyplace. It was a business plan not a supply and demand thing.

[Irace86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There are base models and higher trim models in all the other markets.

No they sold more because they made more. They made more because that was what they planned to do. That was the same in all the markets everyplace. It was a business plan not a supply and demand thing.

It is always a supply and demand thing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86

It is always a supply and demand thing.

No. The car industry builds to a plan not to orders. Doesn't matter if they sell 2 or 2000 if they planned to build 500 that is what they will build no more no less. I have been in the industry for 30 years and can guarantee you that is the way it is.

[Irace86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No. The car industry builds to a plan not to orders. Doesn't matter if they sell 2 or 2000 if they planned to build 500 that is what they will build no more no less. I have been in the industry for 30 years and can guarantee you that is the way it is.

Right... I get that if demand exceeds supply then selling at limited quantities means the manufacture can control sales ratios in the context of the BRZ and FRS. If the demand drops below supply levels, and if the prices matched for base trims, then you may see more BRZ's being sold or at least not a 10 to 1 ratio. Believe me, in a make believe world, if not a single FRS was sold, and every BRZ was bought, then the supply would change.

[track junkie]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No. The car industry builds to a plan not to orders. Doesn't matter if they sell 2 or 2000 if they planned to build 500 that is what they will build no more no less. I have been in the industry for 30 years and can guarantee you that is the way it is.

That's not the case for the Porsche GT4. Porsche changed their plans and built more due to the overwhelming demand.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86

Right... I get that if demand exceeds supply then selling at limited quantities means the manufacture can control sales ratios in the context of the BRZ and FRS. If the demand drops below supply levels, and if the prices matched for base trims, then you may see more BRZ's being sold or at least not a 10 to 1 ratio. Believe me, in a make believe world, if not a single FRS was sold, and every BRZ was bought, then the supply would change.

Yes of course if they sold none then they would drop it. In two or three years when the contracts with the parts suppliers expired. Until then they would continue to make the numbers that were planned. Look at the Aztec they sold very few but kept right on building them. It would have cost them more to break the contracts then it did to make the cars and sell them below cost.
The whole thing that I am say is that the mixed is planned not based on sales numbers, Never was never will be. If sales was the driving force of the mix then there would have been equal numbers made on the first release. There wasn't. We do not know why they chose the mix they did and I doubt that either company will ever tell us. Could be the difference in the dealer system (coincidently enough there are about 20 times the Toyota dealers to Subaru dealers around the world), the logistics systems, or just something as simple as marketing plans. A $1,000 price difference is not the driving force in the difference in numbers between the two.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by track junkie

That's not the case for the Porsche GT4. Porsche changed their plans and built more due to the overwhelming demand.

Porsche is a different matter. You are talking a whole different ball game when into high end specialty cars. Comparing apples to watermelons with that example.

[softgrip]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not went 86?

No way!! Even knowing they are the same car! Subaru or nothin . We were spoiled with the WRX and my wardrobe knows my Subaru fanaticism.

The brz looks happy and the 86 looks angry! I need more happiness