I test drove a 2017. Not impressed. Is it just me?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by curiosul

So ... I should just settle. The kind of answer I was expecting but not hoping for.
I tried a friend's Elise and it's too extreme for a DD. Having good steering just can't compensate for all the other minuses.

Originally Posted by curiosul

Well ... I was afraid that's the reality. If I want a new car (which I do) that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, minimally practical and with seats for my two kids, I'm stuck with one of the twins.

I created the account just for this thread but it looks like I'll be back at some point in the future when I'll buy one of these to cars.

You may want to shop around a bit more. If you go into one of these cars with the thought you "settled" or were "stuck" you may never be satisfied. Even with the refinements for 2017 they are still more of a raw car than you may expect. They make weird noises, are not a luxury ride, although not slow they are not the fastest thing on the road and if your kids have legs the back seat is only really good for short trips. Not really sure what may be more appropriate and certainly agree that the choices are sparse in this category but you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

[strat61caster]

1. No, it only effects how aggressively conservative traction control is.
2. Maybe, but unlikely to be a night and day difference, would probably result in a 'minor improvement'
3. You may be able to unpower the power steering assist, but if there are any out there they're pretty quiet about it. The 86 has a true manual rack with an electric motor sitting behind the dashboard adding assistance, true manual steering probably isn't too difficult to get, but you're taking a gamble on if it will 'feel' any better. Many cars these days are designed with power steering in mind so they often feel worse without it.

As above, I got the chance to drive an NC Miata for a bit before buying an 86 (and after) because I also feared 'electric power steering' but imo the differences were incredibly minute and likely mostly psychological. I'd be surprised if anything else seriously contends with the 86 built in the last decade that didn't originally retail for >$50k.

Edit: I'm pretty surprised an early 90's luxury car has more communicative feedback than an 86, pretty much all 90's cars get flack for numb steering with the exception of very few.

[curiosul]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

1. No, it only effects how aggressively conservative traction control is.
2. Maybe, but unlikely to be a night and day difference, would probably result in a 'minor improvement'
3. You may be able to unpower the power steering assist, but if there are any out there they're pretty quiet about it. The 86 has a true manual rack with an electric motor sitting behind the dashboard adding assistance, true manual steering probably isn't too difficult to get, but you're taking a gamble on if it will 'feel' any better. Many cars these days are designed with power steering in mind so they often feel worse without it.

As above, I got the chance to drive an NC Miata for a bit before buying an 86 (and after) because I also feared 'electric power steering' but imo the differences were incredibly minute and likely mostly psychological. I'd be surprised if anything else seriously contends with the 86 built in the last decade that didn't originally retail for >$50k.

Edit: I'm pretty surprised an early 90's luxury car has more communicative feedback than an 86, pretty much all 90's cars get flack for numb steering with the exception of very few.

The G20 is an oddity among Infiniti cars which in itself was an oddity among (then) newly born Japanese luxury side-brands (early 90s). It's basically a Nissan Primera designed for Europe wit a bit more options and a different badge. When new, no one saw it as a luxury car (too stiff, a bit undepowered, no cup-holders (OOOH, THE HORROR!), too pricey (my car was 25k out the door 24 years ago))

[Tedderple]

I've stumbled upon posts where people have changed the steering rack bushing that connects to the inner tie rods.

When you're driving the car mildly, the OEM rubber bushing(not sure if rubber) takes a lot of squish. This gives it that numb initial turn feel. But after that squish, it should be all better.

So, what companies did (like Whiteline or Perrin) was develop a hard material (aluminum or hard plastic) to replace it and get rid of the squish.

You can search it up, I just started reading about it yesterday and am somewhat convinced I gotta do that mod soon.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by curiosul

My DD for the past 8 years is an old Infiniti G20. I either got used to it too much (imagine a pair of old shoes, enough said) or the steering is the best I tried. I can literally feel everything in the steering wheel. From slight loss of grip when turning too fast to road banking to grooves in the pavement.

If Nissan tuned the steering feel on the G20 similar to the hydraulic rack on my old 350z, then I think I know what kind of steering feedback you're looking for. You want something that will kick back and shudder through the steering wheel over every tiny bump and rock you roll over.

The EPS unit on the Twins isn't going to give you that level of feedback. Actually I doubt you're going to find that on any new car short of a manual-rack 4c. The Twins have relatively good steering feedback, but it's still electric at the end of the day.

On the plus side, what you get with the Twins (vs. old hydraulic racks) is much more quick and direct steering with less slop on-center. That's probably why it feels more "playstation" to you, it's almost too direct/quick if you're used to older hydraulic racks.

If you're looking for something like your old G20, I think your best bet is to buy something used with a hydraulic rack.

[Summerwolf]

Try a sixth gen Camaro. Excellent steering feel and really nice to drive!

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Try a sixth gen Camaro. Excellent steering feel and really nice to drive!

How would you compare the steering feel of the 6th Gen Camaro compared to the twins. Obviously it is larger/heavier, but does it have a playful nature like a smaller car. I owned a 5th gen 1LE, i was amazed at how well it handled. It didnt drive like the big ole tub of bolts it was, it had a little bit of the smaller car spirit in it. But not enough in the end, and i came running back to smaller vehicles. My hope is the lighter/smaller 6th gen may be an improvement, and be something i would have interest in. My 1LE communicated greatly, you could walk it right to the edge, feel a slip and just hold it like a pro. A good dancer partner, but in the end she was just to fat for me. The car that is.

I'd love to hear any impressions you have.

[mrderp]

Originally Posted by ToySub1946

I decided I needed a vehicle which is higher off the ground for remote roads around here.

A laugh on me it was. Way Way too spoiled by the FRS I am. Gonna have to continue to drive those roads, with the FRS, sometimes hitting bottom, scraping things..oh well.

You could always fit the crosstrek bodylift onto the FRS. It should give you the clearance you want.
Click me for inspiration

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

How would you compare the steering feel of the 6th Gen Camaro compared to the twins. Obviously it is larger/heavier, but does it have a playful nature like a smaller car. I owned a 5th gen 1LE, i was amazed at how well it handled. It didnt drive like the big ole tub of bolts it was, it had a little bit of the smaller car spirit in it. But not enough in the end, and i came running back to smaller vehicles. My hope is the lighter/smaller 6th gen may be an improvement, and be something i would have interest in. My 1LE communicated greatly, you could walk it right to the edge, feel a slip and just hold it like a pro. A good dancer partner, but in the end she was just to fat for me. The car that is.

I'd love to hear any impressions you have.

They're good. Try one. It is very subjective.

[Mim]

You mentioned Track/Sports so I assume you were referring to the AT. You really need to try pushing that button. To me the regular auto mode is terribad. That button will transform the transmission in a wonderful awe inspiring way full of gear holding, engine breaking and throttle responsiveness goodness.

As for the steering you need to find a more adventurous drive route. I was lucky when I test drove my first twin as the dealer took me to a nearby valley area with some curvy down hill stretches and the return trip was the same, but a nice hill climb where I could open it up a little.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

It is very subjective.

Well this is the truth. I guess a test drive is in order.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

Well this is the truth. I guess a test drive is in order.

Worth a drive. I did a mini review of a drive in one in one of the vs threads. My summary was that it is almost there but not quite. Way better than the last gen but still not what I like overall. Fast as hell though.

[HKz]

The 86's steering is by far the best for any new car under $50 K. It is very precise, quick and has enough feedback. The ND Miata is the only one that matches it but I prefer how the 86 turns.

Since you pointed out "normal" mode then I assume you are talking about the automatic version (fyi, none of the "modes" btw change how the steering feels and we are in the same generation, 2017 is just a refresh). My first FRS was an automatic but I have to put in my two cents that the manual is really the one to get especially with the 2017 updates.. The automatic is not bad so certainly if you have a shitty commute or have some sort of disability that makes it hard to drive a stick then that is understandable, otherwise it does take away from the experience quite a bit since the gear is more aggressive on the MT (even more so with the 2017s).

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Worth a drive. I did a mini review of a drive in one in one of the vs threads. My summary was that it is almost there but not quite. Way better than the last gen but still not what I like overall. Fast as hell though.

I am betting that is how i will feel as well. I know its a capable car, no doubt. But there is an "x" factor, that is always elusive. As you said "almost there".