FT-86 II Concept Photos from Geneva!! Motherload of photos.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

You guys don't get it: Your views do not represent those of enough people in the population.

It doesn't matter if you think it can be underpowered so long as it slides well -- it's not going to sell unless it can keep up with other similarly priced cars in the direction the wheels are facing -- period.

I'm a fan, but I'm not blind to reality.

All those people logging on to get flamed and leave -- yeah, those are potential customers giving up on what they fear will be another lackluster "sporty" car by Toyota.

Toyota is wasting their time if this is designed to be an upgrade from a Civic or a Koupe -- wrong era; not enough of a market.

There's no point in competing with the Miata...

If it's priced between a 'stang and a Z, it's going to have to demonstrate performance numbers that put it in that ball park.

You keep assuming there's only market for one type of "performance" curve: Brute power.

Right now there is a complete and utter void in the compact RWD coupe market (not ragtop), not a single car there to compete, and there are plenty of people from mid 20's on up to their 50's that would be interested in an affordable, balanced, light-weight rwd coupe for use in weekend warrioring, especially if said platform comes with an amiable engine willing to be upgraded, and a solid platform that's easy to adjust and balance. And thats just the enthusiast market.

[serchmarc]

THKS for the pics
are very interesting and HD
thks
p.s

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

There's no point in competing with the Miata...

umm why?

it's not like the miata is a slow seller compared to the 370Z.. the v6 mustang gets great bang for the buck if you just look at the 0-60 or quarter mile, but the people to whom only straight line matters would never buy a 4 cylinder car anyway.

the z4 doesn't out perform the 370Z or the V6 Stang, but it doesn't seem to have any problems?

if it was announced that the ft86 was gonna have 170 hp i'd understand your concerns, but 200 hp at 2700 lbs is definitely enough in my opinion. no need to top the stang, which will always cater more to straight line performance anyway.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

It doesn't matter if you think it can be underpowered so long as it slides well -- it's not going to sell unless it can keep up with other similarly priced cars in the direction the wheels are facing -- period.

Speed is a by-product of power vs weight, if the weight is low, the power doesn't have to be there to "keep up". 2700lbs is going to be 200lbs lighter than anything else available. If its only shy by 20hp the weight is sufficient to make up the difference in power.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Sorry, but I'm not buying that. I am not blind to reality either.

So you're telling me all those young ppl gonna go beat up old Civic and straight to brand new Z or Stange? There's no between?

Look at what I drive, you're talking about me directly! Except the Stang sucks and the Z is to much $$.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by micmic

I made one of those "unhappy" comments. You see, it is that they had nailed it the first time, and then they made it look gaudy. It is just the opinion of me and some others to go back to the original design. It would be like if you were dating a beautiful woman, say Eva Longoria and then fake-baked, fake-nailed, and tramp'd her up in clothes until you had Snooki... We'd tell you to go back to the original one.



Toyota hasn't proven they can sell anything desireable since the late 90's. As you said, it is a concept. Ninety-nine percent of the time what you see in concept form is NOT what you get in production form. However, the purpose of a concept is to test the waters and see the response to different directions. My guess is this is likely going to be the shape of the car they'll produce, minus the carbon crap, under tray and aero...

New sig. Awesome, dude!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

Look at what I drive, you're talking about me directly! Except the Stang sucks and the Z is to much $$.

I'm not insulting your civic or anything, but you do see my view right? Even if you are motorsport maniac, just can't afford Z or those price range.

I'm not sure what attracted this car, but I bet affordable sports car was one of the reason.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I'm not insulting your civic or anything, but you do see my view right? Even if you are motorsport maniac, just can't afford Z or those price range.

I'm not sure what attracted this car, but I bet affordable sports car was one of the reason.

He had a Matrix XRS (2ZZGE, the last pure performance Toyota motor, RIP...) before, remember? Price of the FT86 should actually be pretty close to that.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by Dimman

He had a Matrix XRS (2ZZGE, the last pure performance Toyota motor, RIP...) before, remember? Price of the FT86 should actually be pretty close to that.

You are correct - I do still have it. But it is out of commission atm. So in the mean time I cruise in a 95 Civic, power nothing.

And indeed, this will be very similar to the price of the Matrix XRS I have.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I'm not insulting your civic or anything, but you do see my view right? Even if you are motorsport maniac, just can't afford Z or those price range.

I'm not sure what attracted this car, but I bet affordable sports car was one of the reason.

Indeed, there does need to be a nice medium, and for me the Stang is no where near "nice" its completely wrong. Back end is like a time bomb, who knows when it's going to blow -- except you do know... anytime you step on the gas. And the Z's are too much money.
So the FT-86 is right up my alley, and its a not so cheap I'll crash it and shrug it off and buy another one, and its not to expensive that I'll never want to push it for fear of crashing it. This will be my first RWD car and I plan to learn how to drive it responsibly, and knowing the price point and how much I paid really helps keep the lines in a clear perspective.
The price is right for the amount of car you are getting IMO.

[BootpTraphik]

Great pics man!

As for the concept MKII I think its awesome! It looks tight, the wheel arches and roof line, front headlights, for the most part it all looks good.

BUT, I find that as you go from front to back it gets progressively worse (not worse, but say "not as good"). IMO the rear bumper protrudes way too much and just seems awkward. I prefer the rear of the MKI for sure.

All in all I think the MKI is CLEANER, but the MKII is more aggressive and "expensive" looking. I really dig the rims, but they raise a few questions. Why so skinny, and are they running a staggered setup?

I guess we will just have to wait until pre-release photos now lol.

[Dragonitti]

The Stang did out corner the M3. Not taking up for it as I'm not into Stangs, but you have to give it credit in the handling department.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

The Stang did out corner the M3. Not taking up for it as I'm not into Stangs, but you have to give it credit in the handling department.

I agree here. I'm not into Mustangs but give Ford a lot of respect for what they did with that car over the years. The new 5.0 is really impressive, and the Boss is apparently incredible on the track.

Hell, the Supra community has given the older supercharged Cobras the rather respectful 'Reaper' and 'Terminator' nicknames.

[AIRMAX]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

You guys don't get it: Your views do not represent those of enough people in the population.

It doesn't matter if you think it can be underpowered so long as it slides well -- it's not going to sell unless it can keep up with other similarly priced cars in the direction the wheels are facing -- period.

I'm a fan, but I'm not blind to reality.

All those people logging on to get flamed and leave -- yeah, those are potential customers giving up on what they fear will be another lackluster "sporty" car by Toyota.

Toyota is wasting their time if this is designed to be an upgrade from a Civic or a Koupe -- wrong era; not enough of a market.

There's no point in competing with the Miata...

If it's priced between a 'stang and a Z, it's going to have to demonstrate performance numbers that put it in that ball park.

Jordo..

thats 1 reason a vehicle development last 4-5 years, the first 2 years is basically investigating the market for it, benchmarking the competition and putting a target demographic.... I mean, vehicle development cost tens of millions of dollars, from concept to production, engineers, tool makers, suppliers, resources are allocated..... Toyota is the world's number 1 in Automotive marketing believe it or not.

Hence, WHY this car has been in development and has been shelved for a few months during the recession/GFC.


I do understand your concerns, that people might as well spedn the extra 5K and buy the car that has 50+ hp extra on it....


But you have to also realise, if thats the case... then the Miata wouldnt exists.... the Civic Si/Type R wouldnt exists.... heck the S2000 back a decade ago wouldnt of been born.


The truth of the matter is... Toyota is targetting the S2000 demographic... basically below the 350/370Z, RX8, Genesis Coupe etc.
Those cars are in the same engine output range.

Toyota from my understanding is going to slot this between the current Miata and the 370Z... that was the plan previously... but as you've heard many times they've considered bumping up the features and engine output to make it directly compete with 370Z.... to be honest, its a 50/50 toss up at the moment. With Concept 1.0 (mark I), its easily seen to be below the 370Z... with its compact sports coupe appearance and basic exterior features.... but now seeing mark II, I think this is the result of them studying to market it against the 370Z...

again, its a toss up at the moment...... Albeit there's a few debates going on at Toyota Japan HQ on which shall be the engine power output for this.... NA or Turbo.

I'm just hoping its not like the previous Celica.... which had 134kW (170hp).... atleast make it 150kW (200hp) to make some interesting comparisons with the 370Z owners.


But the Subaru version being under development also means that Subaru will enter the coupe market.... and this model is more likely to be the turbo version to compete with the V6+ coupes.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

It could still be better. Imagine if they decided to do it "right". Then they'd get some serious

They've done a good job as one of the surviving "big 3" companies that had a nice crash. Their vehicles are a much higher quality now and I'm almost at the point where I'd get one if I had to pick from the 3.

[micmic]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I agree here. I'm not into Mustangs but give Ford a lot of respect for what they did with that car over the years. The new 5.0 is really impressive, and the Boss is apparently incredible on the track.

That new 5.0 is a great motor... That would make a fun project in an NC Miata. Unfortunately, no garage space, money or time to do it.

Originally Posted by AIRMAX

But you have to also realise, if thats the case... then the Miata wouldnt exists.... the Civic Si/Type R wouldnt exists.... heck the S2000 back a decade ago wouldnt of been born.

Those are the cars I miss... Of all the cars I've been fortunate enough to have owned at one time (00 2.5RS coupe, 03 Mazdaspeed Protege, 97 Type R, 99 Sport Miata, 08 Civic Si sedan [current]) and co-drive autocrossing and track (68 Mini (historic racer), 00 Civic Si, 01 Type R, 01 S2000, 04 S2000, 04 STI (very modded), 04 Z06, 05 Evo, 125cc shifter kart), the Type R was my favorite (the AP1 S2000 was a close second). It by far wasn't the fastest car (the shifter kart was), but it was the most enjoyable car to drive. The car was pure. It was light, had ample power, communicated back to the driver and responded to the driver's input as if it were an extension of himself. That's not taking anything away from the other cars, they're all great cars in their own right. It was my hope that Toyota was looking to give us a simple, light-weight, RWD driver's car in the essence of the Type R (which in the earliest comments from Toyota, they said that the Type R was a benchmark). My 08 Si is nice and comfy like a Lay-Z Boy recliner, but it is nothing like that car.