Daily Driver SC for pushing 300 whp

[Matt@Cosworth]

the main thing to mention here is the tune
its crucial to engine longevity and a bad tune vs good tune on the same hardware will kill things pretty quickly

[Anderzz]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Why are we all talking about clutches and horsepower instead of torque? It's torque that kills clutches - and the positive displacement superchargers can produce a lot more torque for a given peak whp output level - that's one big consideration. Example: A tuned intercooled innovate, or intercooled edelbrock on CARB tune will both produce probably 240-250whp peak on pump, but both will also produce close to 200 wtq for a good span of the rev range, with torque falling off in the upper ranges. A well tuned centrifugal unit like a vortech may produce around 280whp peak - sounds like a lot more but in reality it's at or under 200wtq for most of the power band.

Around 200wtq is probably the limit before you start having some issues - and also depends a lot on how abusive you are.

Apples to apples, a 280 whp positive displacement supercharger (or turbo) will likely kill the clutch a lot faster than a 280whp centrifugal supercharger. A tuned/optimized 280whp edelbrock unit will probably make the clutch suffer.

Thanks for the highly informative reply. If you don't mind the total noob question, what are the other PD SC options outside of the Edelbrock?

Seems like the huge torque would be alot more appealing to me personally even if it meant dropping another $700-$1k on a better clutch

[armstrom]

Originally Posted by Anderzz

Thanks for the highly informative reply. If you don't mind the total noob question, what are the other PD SC options outside of the Edelbrock?

Seems like the huge torque would be alot more appealing to me personally even if it meant dropping another $700-$1k on a better clutch

The primary PD kits are Edelbrock, Harrop and Cosworth. Sprintex is also a PD SC but uses a twinscrew rather than roots type blower. The other three all use Eaton TVS (1320 for the Edelbrock and Harrop, 900 for the Cosworth) blowers.
-Matt

[Kylebrz]

Originally Posted by Anderzz

that's encouraging, how many miles has it been in the car?

I have put 30k kilometers in it and it's been thru it's paces my friends have vortech and jr kits and they have had a few hiccups but not me I am making more tq then them to


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[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by armstrom

The primary PD kits are Edelbrock, Harrop and Cosworth. Sprintex is also a PD SC but uses a twinscrew rather than roots type blower. The other three all use Eaton TVS (1320 for the Edelbrock and Harrop, 900 for the Cosworth) blowers.
-Matt

Yup, though I wouldn't leave the Sprintex supercharger out of the 'primary' category, it was one of the first systems out for our cars and is a solid performer if set up/tuned right. There's also a TRD developed one, but it's a bit of a unicorn and probably not a complete bolt on kit when you find one.

Regarding the centrifugal systems, I wouldn't discount them just because they lack torque at 2500 rpm. At 3500+ they still produce a good bit more torque than a NA car, and 5000+ they're rockets all they way to redline.

Lastly, as someone else mentioned, TUNE is everything.

[Kylebrz]

Tune is everything!!


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[VABeachBRZ]

I personally would rather have the centrifugal systems. TQ down low doesn't help my track days or spirited driving. @ 4.5k+ it starts to take off. My buddy has the edelbrock, but says he likes the way mine (JRSC) drives and prefers it.


Both kits are amazing. It's all about how you use them. Can't go wrong with either

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by Nah

100k on your motor with the supercharger!?!?!?!

Mis read your post lol... but still how many miles on the setup?

102k miles on the set up and 126k total miles on the motor. lol

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by Wise

How is the transmission going any problems during that timespan? Do you run an aftermarket clutch?

No gearing issues but a lot of throw out bearing issues. It seems to wear out every 40k miles or so.
I started off running the stock clutch for 20k miles. Then switched over to an exedy stage 2 before their revision. That was a nightmare. I went back to the stock clutch and it holds fine.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

So I'm just wondering is there any noticeable tq in a centrifugal type supercharger below 4.5k RPM? Does it pretty much feel like a NA engine? I like the fact that centrifugal makes more top end but will it still feel like there's a torque dip in the 3-4.5k RPM range?

I have an Edelbrock and have driven a couple of JRSC equipped cars. I would have to say yes, I noticed that in the lower rev ranges, the JRSC equipped car kinda feels like an NA car, but without the torque dip since there is still more torque than stock and the dip is usually filled in, just not a "wallop" like the Edelbrock.

[wbradley]

I'm curious how a car on 215's, stock width but ultra high performance tire manage the Edelbrock torque wallop. As appealing as that sounds I picture activating VSC and throttle cut out pretty quick on aggressive take offs.
With the centrifugal the low end torque is a lot less, typically the torque dip is gone with more overall response lower end, with a screaming upper end. So, the tach needle climbs quick from about 4800 to redline. The power curve increases linear to redline. Maybe like a more powerful S2000 with a turbo sound?

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I'm curious how a car on 215's, stock width but ultra high performance tire manage the Edelbrock torque wallop. As appealing as that sounds I picture activating VSC and throttle cut out pretty quick on aggressive take offs.

Why not just get wheels/tires that will accommodate the added power? Or turn off VSC.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by shiumai

Why not just get wheels/tires that will accommodate the added power? Or turn off VSC.

Firstly, some people like to run narrower wheels/tires. I will be swapping to 225's on my 8" wheels. There seems to be some school of thought that significantly wider tires changes the dynamics, as would a staggered setup, and I belive that for me at this point in a way I prefer not to go .

Shutting off VSC every time not a suitable option, I daily drive as do most people.

The different types of blowers are like different "flavours". That doesn't mean they aren't all tasty, or that all designs will be everyone's taste.

In the ideal world unless you are drifting you want to get the power to the ground. It's just a matter of how easy or difficult that will be and whether or not you are compromising handling or feel.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Firstly, some people like to run narrower wheels/tires. I will be swapping to 225's on my 8" wheels. There seems to be some school of thought that significantly wider tires changes the dynamics, as would a staggered setup, and I belive that for me at this point in a way I prefer not to go .

Shutting off VSC every time not a suitable option, I daily drive as do most people.

The different types of blowers are like different "flavours". That doesn't mean they aren't all tasty, or that all designs will be everyone's taste.

In the ideal world unless you are drifting you want to get the power to the ground. It's just a matter of how easy or difficult that will be and whether or not you are compromising handling or feel.

Wider tires don't change the dynamic of the car. Rather, it exaggerates it.

A car that understeers can be made to "oversteer" if the tires are small enough and you have enough power; this is a "power-over". Make the tires wide enough, and eventually you can't power-over anymore, revealing the true understeering nature of that specific car.