Completely new driver. Need advice

[HotLava]

Originally Posted by PoRco

I've actually seen the first two videos before! You posted it on some other thread. This was the video that actually made me rethink for a bit.

But isn't moving the stick shift part of the entire "feel" of the car ? That's what I'm afraid I will lose out on.

What's your opinion on that?

Edit: I wish your friend mounted the cam the way you did :P

The bottom line is you can't go wrong with either choice. It's false to think if you pick one or the other you will make a mistake. I'd phrase it more like they are different but equal. It's like comparing a rangefinder camera to an SLR--different tools, but both work 100% if you know how to use them.

[FRSjeff]

Originally Posted by engee

You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and I think you get what this car is about.

HOWEVER,

I do not think you should get this as your first manual car.

I'm not trying to be mean and just tell you not to get it.

Here are two reasons as to why:

1- I'm glad you brought up the feel of the car. However, being that this is your first manual car, how would you be able to tell the difference? In order to truly be able to differentiate, you need a comparison point. The same is in regard to every other experience you have had. Everyone probably thought their first girlfriend was great, until the next one came.

In addition, you have never pushed any car to the limit. In my opinion, true characteristics of cars are never found from driving on the street. I'm still getting taken to school with this car and I'm coming from a faster car.

2- Factor in maintenance fees. Without a doubt, there will be more stress on the car. This is due to the fact that it is your first manual car. The clutch will probably go faster. The synchros might wear faster. Etc. The list goes on.

My personal recommendation is to buy a dirt cheap manual car to learn on. Drive it, learn it, beat the piss out of it. Whatever. Even if something breaks, it definitely is not as heart wrenching or expensive. Then when you have finally gotten the hang of things, pick up the FR-S. Then, you will truly appreciate all the hype going into this car.

I hope you heed my advice and best of luck in whatever you choose.

The last part of this comment is really good advise.

[eriktherod]

Nothing wrong with this car as the first manual car, I learned on my brand spankin' new 08 Si when I got it over 4 years ago. My friend drove it off the lot for me and I loved it even up to the point where I traded it in for the FR-S. I would say the FR-S is pretty forgiving on the clutch and I've gotten used to the engagement point and how much throttle to give it to launch gradually in a matter of weeks.

A new car is a pretty big ticket item, probably one of the most expensive things you'll buy in your lifetime apart from a house. You should get what you want, you're the one paying for it.

If this was like a Viper or something extremely powerful and expensive, I'd say maybe not a good first car. But this is a $25K car, it's a sports car yes, but it's 200hp, not a brand new Vette/Ferrari/etc. If you leave the nannies on, it'll keep you out of trouble. RWD (especially with all these new traction control features) is hardly a beast out to wreck you.

I'd say do it, if you're going to be paying for something for the next X years, you better at least be enjoying it while you do.

[engee]

Originally Posted by PoRco

I really appreciate this post, and I'm glad you brought this up. This has been on my mind too. "Should I get a beaten up car to learn in?"

The thing is, I may not enjoy BEING in the car if I do. I have this NEED to enjoy the car I'm in and appreciate the aesthetics. Every single time that I've contemplated buying a cheap used car, I find myself browsing the RX-8's or the Mitsubish Eclipse's that cost anywhere between 10k -22k (used).

And the others... I just don't see myself WANTING to drive them

So yeah, I totally agree with you...and your post was one of the reasons that I posted this thread...to see if the more experienced drivers on this forum would think that I'd be fine having this car.

I need the Ft86club community's seal of approval :P

I guess the real question is what you plan on doing with your car. Do you plan for it to be a DD and fun? Is your overall goal to be competitive at autocross? Are you just looking for a aesthetically pleasing car? Is it to please the ladies? Are you looking to become an awesome driver? How can you be so certain that you won't enjoy driving the other cars you mentioned? Have you test driven them? What about the direct competitor which is the miata which you can probably find for dirt cheap if you look at old 90's generation?

The list of questions goes on and the only person that can answer these questions is yourself.

From my own personal experience, I started off on a cheap beater car. When I am talking cheap, I mean under $2,000 cheap. Car had no ABS but had 4 wheels, a manual gearbox, and a steering wheel. There is absolutely no way that you would push the new FR-S ($25,990 CAN) the way I did with my beater car. Nor would you have want to have the "lessons" that I learned on that car with the FR-S.

Also, you will be putting more stress on your car if this is your first manual car.

Everyone keeps saying they are fine and I do agree with them to a certain extent. In terms of everyday driving, you probably will be fine. Once you try some more advance techniques, I highly doubt you will be able to not avoid putting stress on the transmission. The first time you try to launch your car, heel-toe, rev-match, double clutch, etc. you will be putting more stress on your car without a doubt. Now before you say you won't, I can assure you that you will. If you have a manual car, it will only be a matter of time until you try some stuff like this. Just trust me on this one.

Once again, it all depends on what your goal is. If you really want the FR-S, get it.

I just think you will appreciate it that much more if you start off on a beater. Your skills as a driver will be better and when you decide to switch, you will truly be able to appreciate the "feel" of the car.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

If I go to the dealer and ask for FR-S MT tranny, but they only have AT tranny FR-S, I'll prob buy that AT FR-S.

& that story goes vice versa.

I'm planning to buy MT. Not cuz it give me full experience blah blah blah. I'm planning to buy MT, cuz it's cheaper than AT.... Simple is that.

I already know this car's potential and I liked both tranny.

Look over your daily route & what you want to do w this car. If you want to be weekend warrior & have a fun at autox, trust me, AT tranny still can do that plus more.

Hope that helps

I completely agree. I test drove the automatic as well and the car performed well beyond my expectations even with TCS on. Although not in the video, the AT will rev-match on downshifts if I am not mistaken.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rSuNO-WYw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rSuNO-WYw[/ame]

[PoRco]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

If I go to the dealer and ask for FR-S MT tranny, but they only have AT tranny FR-S, I'll prob buy that AT FR-S.

& that story goes vice versa.

I'm planning to buy MT. Not cuz it give me full experience blah blah blah. I'm planning to buy MT, cuz it's cheaper than AT.... Simple is that.

I already know this car's potential and I liked both tranny.

Look over your daily route & what you want to do w this car. If you want to be weekend warrior & have a fun at autox, trust me, AT tranny still can do that plus more.

Hope that helps

Awesome! Thanks for the advice man.

As much as I want to take the less difficult route and avoid going through the hassle of learning manual... Something inside me is itching to shift the stick. I've always thought it was super cool how the pros shift.

What is your opinion on the lack of using the shift stick? (The shift stick is whats attracting me to manual the most) Is it as good as using the paddles?

And yeah, I could definitely use the extra $1k+ saved if I can too :P

[PoRco]

Originally Posted by engee

I guess the real question is what you plan on doing with your car. Do you plan for it to be a DD and fun? Is your overall goal to be competitive at autocross? Are you just looking for a aesthetically pleasing car? Is it to please the ladies? Are you looking to become an awesome driver? How can you be so certain that you won't enjoy driving the other cars you mentioned? Have you test driven them? What about the direct competitor which is the miata which you can probably find for dirt cheap if you look at old 90's generation?

The list of questions goes on and the only person that can answer these questions is yourself.

From my own personal experience, I started off on a cheap beater car. When I am talking cheap, I mean under $2,000 cheap. Car had no ABS but had 4 wheels, a manual gearbox, and a steering wheel. There is absolutely no way that you would push the new FR-S ($25,990 CAN) the way I did with my beater car. Nor would you have want to have the "lessons" that I learned on that car with the FR-S.

Also, you will be putting more stress on your car if this is your first manual car.

Everyone keeps saying they are fine and I do agree with them to a certain extent. In terms of everyday driving, you probably will be fine. Once you try some more advance techniques, I highly doubt you will be able to not avoid putting stress on the transmission. The first time you try to launch your car, heel-toe, rev-match, double clutch, etc. you will be putting more stress on your car without a doubt. Now before you say you won't, I can assure you that you will. If you have a manual car, it will only be a matter of time until you try some stuff like this. Just trust me on this one.

Once again, it all depends on what your goal is. If you really want the FR-S, get it.

I just think you will appreciate it that much more if you start off on a beater. Your skills as a driver will be better and when you decide to switch, you will truly be able to appreciate the "feel" of the car.



I completely agree. I test drove the automatic as well and the car performed well beyond my expectations even with TCS on. Although not in the video, the AT will rev-match on downshifts if I am not mistaken.

At the risk of sounding like a superficial kid, yes, I need the car to be aesthetically pleasing. I want, for some reason, to be inside a car that I think is beautiful. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with the ladies.

I don't like the look of the Miata actually. The only cars that I'd enjoy is the RX-8 or the Eclipse. (The FR-s seems to have what I want in exacts though)

I don't plan on being competitive at AutoCross... I do plan on attending to improve my skills to "control" the car though. Beating times is not (At least currently) a concern. And yeah

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by PoRco

Awesome! Thanks for the advice man.

As much as I want to take the less difficult route and avoid going through the hassle of learning manual... Something inside me is itching to shift the stick. I've always thought it was super cool how the pros shift.

What is your opinion on the lack of using the shift stick? (The shift stick is whats attracting me to manual the most) Is it as good as using the paddles?

And yeah, I could definitely use the extra $1k+ saved if I can too :P

Sounds like you've already made up your mind, go buy MT lol

When I was invited to test drive FR-S at the Vegas, AT didn't lack against MT. Yes, I gotta agree, shift up & down doing H&T is great feeling... BUT AT didn't lack great feeling cuz it was missing H&T, I was doing left feet braking w AT (which is decently hard to do for most ppl & specially at the track).

There's no riight answer to this, so don't buy AT/MT cuz someone said so, it's your car, not theirs. Try both of em! Lack MT skill? So what? Practice w this car. After beating & master MT, need to replace clutch or tranny? O'well, you know that was going to happen. Ppl tease you cuz bought AT? Fuck em! They don't know what they're talking bout. Drift around em & show what this AT tranny can do!

Again, if you want MT, go for it! If you not sure if you can handle MT and want to buy AT, go for it!

Either way Win-Win!

[TheRipler]

Originally Posted by PoRco

At the risk of sounding like a superficial kid, yes, I need the car to be aesthetically pleasing. I want, for some reason, to be inside a car that I think is beautiful. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with the ladies.

I don't like the look of the Miata actually. The only cars that I'd enjoy is the RX-8 or the Eclipse. (The FR-s seems to have what I want in exacts though)

I don't plan on being competitive at AutoCross... I do plan on attending to improve my skills to "control" the car though. Beating times is not (At least currently) a concern. And yeah

I can't fault you for wanting an aesthetically pleasing car, but I am also in the "Start with a beater" camp.

One thing you need to consider is that you haven't learned what you don't know yet. Almost everyone screws up their first car one way or another, and the choice is what car will you kill? The flip side to having the "perfect" first car is how you will feel when it rolls off on the back of a flatbed due to a decision you made.

I'd say get a beater for 6mo or a year. Don't spend much money, maybe $1-2K. Learn what's wrong with it, and how it got that way. Figure out what you personally do to kill cars. Then, in a short time, you'll be armed with the knowledge to take care of the car you love.

...but it's your money, and you can feel free to ignore everything I said. I know there's no way some random person on the internet would keep me from buying this car.

[PoRco]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Sounds like you've already made up your mind, go buy MT lol

When I was invited to test drive FR-S at the Vegas, AT didn't lack against MT. Yes, I gotta agree, shift up & down doing H&T is great feeling... BUT AT didn't lack great feeling cuz it was missing H&T, I was doing left feet braking w AT (which is decently hard to do for most ppl & specially at the track).

There's no riight answer to this, so don't buy AT/MT cuz someone said so, it's your car, not theirs. Try both of em! Lack MT skill? So what? Practice w this car. After beating & master MT, need to replace clutch or tranny? O'well, you know that was going to happen. Ppl tease you cuz bought AT? Fuck em! They don't know what they're talking bout. Drift around em & show what this AT tranny can do!

Again, if you want MT, go for it! If you not sure if you can handle MT and want to buy AT, go for it!

Either way Win-Win!

You're right. I keep looking for people to tell me to get a manual instead. It's clear what I really want. I just have to face the music and go through the learning curve. Can't wait to become fluid with the shifting though . It's gonna be so much fun

Just gotta decide between the Argento or FireStorm now :P

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by PoRco

You're right. I keep looking for people to tell me to get a manual instead. It's clear what I really want. I just have to face the music and go through the learning curve. Can't wait to become fluid with the shifting though . It's gonna be so much fun

Just gotta decide between the Argento or FireStorm now :P

Now, that one, I'm voting firestorm! lol

[eriktherod]

Once you see Firestorm in person, you'll be sold. I initially wanted Ultramarine but... yeah.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by eriktherod

Once you see Firestorm in person, you'll be sold. I initially wanted Ultramarine but... yeah.

Great minds think a like!

[tdoggy57]

Keep in mind that you can still shift with the "stick" in the automatic version. The paddle shifters aren't the only way to change gears. I use the actual stick more than the paddle shifters because I find it more enjoyable and it gives off more of a racecar type of feeling.

Just throwing that out there.

[engee]

Originally Posted by PoRco

At the risk of sounding like a superficial kid, yes, I need the car to be aesthetically pleasing. I want, for some reason, to be inside a car that I think is beautiful. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with the ladies.

I don't like the look of the Miata actually. The only cars that I'd enjoy is the RX-8 or the Eclipse. (The FR-s seems to have what I want in exacts though)

I don't plan on being competitive at AutoCross... I do plan on attending to improve my skills to "control" the car though. Beating times is not (At least currently) a concern. And yeah

Pretty much what ichitaka said. It seems like you have already made up your mind to get manual. In terms of color, I think firestorm definitely blows argento out of the park.

My only last piece of advice is to find a hill that hardly anyone drives on and practice there. That’s how my pops taught me. He made me stop the car at the bottom of the hill, engage 1st, move 1 feet, stop, and repeat until I got to the top of the hill. If you can master hills, you should be able to get the rest of the stuff fairly quickly.

Good luck man!