Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

That's kind of the point though, isn't it?

He's got an NA Miata but isn't bitching about it.


Why?

Because his car is so light like a feather. 😂


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[~el~jefe~]

I test drove a GTI and BRZ past two weeks, both brand new. The GTI is exactly what it says, it hauls ass, is smooth, but, as is stated, cannot at all take a turn at the speeds of a BRZ.

When will people understand that it is not about how fast you are going, it is about never stopping ever or slowing down. Also, roads are crap in the USA and people drive like morons. My Mini COoper S constantly is ahead of 500-700hp cars without driving dangerously, for simple fact that it can handle bizarre turns and bad drivers and poor roads, as well as brake and never plows around due to weight.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Whether or not they offered the NA Miata with a turbo option is irrelevant.

What is perfectly relevant is that Mazda did offer a turbo Miata.

It failed just like a turbo/supercharged/larger displacement 86 would fail.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

That's kind of the point though, isn't it?

He's got an NA Miata but isn't bitching about it.


Why?

Because it is an Automotive Sin to criticize the NA Miata.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

NHTSA gave the NB a 4/5 stars back in the day, if the new ND was unsafe it wouldn't be on the road, cars get denied certification every once in awhile, like the Fiat Abarth I mentioned that needed chassis re-design to meet US crash testing requirements.

Less safe? I won't argue.
Unsafe? Well the people paid to honestly assess that don't think so.

The NC was never tested (don't have a clear answer as to why, it's weird that they would allow it). The NB tests were frontal and side impact, which are frankly easy as shit to pass and don't account for most real world crashes. The ND has been tested in Europe and several tests were "adequate" and "marginal."
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqs9ZO1KxQ"]Mazda MX5 Miata Full Crash Test 2016 Mazda Miata Commercial CARJAM TV HD - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by venturaII

In order for GM executives to have watered down something, it had to first exist. Every single test mule and prototype used the same front wheel drive X body platform for chassis and transmission. The original test motors were 1.8 liter iron 4 cyls, similar to those being developed for the upcoming J body fwd cars, and even crappier performing than the Iron Duke they finally used. There was never a V6 anywhere in the design or development stage for the car, at any point in time. Maybe Aldikacti wished he could get a budget to develop a non-existent engine from scratch, in addition to a platform to carry it, and I'm sure that sentiment meets all kinds of approval at Fiero club meetings, but that's not what 'designed' means. It's fantasy and hindsight.

You really are clueless aren't you. Try actually reading up on development about it instead of all the crap GM spewed out to cover them putting out a crappy car.

Originally Posted by krayzie

Seems like none of the D-4S equipped Toyota engines have variable valve lift.

Not sure why that is. I'm guessing it's just seen as too complicated for little gain.

Originally Posted by Yardjass

And I can't find it now but whoever was talking about beefing up the car being too difficult, look at the 6L50 transmission that GM just put in the diesel colorado. Albeit its an auto, but they took the 6L45 and bumped its torque rating by 100 ft-lbs with nothing but internal work. Then they threw it in a truck and rated it to to almost 8000 pounds, and nobody is complaining of failures or saying it makes them nervous. If this isn't possible on our transmissions, they should have left more room in the tunnel during design for a stronger one. That shows that they chose to optimize this car as it is instead of take a small weight penalty to make a more powerful car with a still acceptable weight possible in the future. Some people are probably happy about this. I'm not. Its shows lack of foresight and the killing off of a lot of potential in exchange for a rather small benefit.

Beefing up an auto is very straightforward and much MUCH more simple than a stick. As a general rule, it's about heat management, line pressure, and friction material. Autos don't suffer failures of the gears, but of the clutch linings usually.

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Also, I agree on the vast GM parts bin but Nissan's is nothing special anymore and the 370Z isn't exactly on the leading edge of technology. in the 90's, their stock NA Z transmission was shared with the skyline and the turbo Z and they're all holding up in 700 horse drag cars even today. However, this technology is somewhat dated and the fact is Nissan doesn't make a new vehicle that utilizes a stout manual transmission other than the 370Z, which is honestly a relic that they've been too lazy to redesign or meaningfully update in far too long. If Nissan put their minds to redesign/improvement and couldn't get the Z under 3,000 lbs, if not very close, it would surprise me quite a bit. The problem is they won't, which is also why their new Titan will go the way of the old one and will only be competitive for a year or two until everyone else improves and they just stay the same.

And of course they killed off their small sports car prototype they had... I really want to like Nissan, but they keep doing stupid crap. Can't get AWD on the Juke with a stick comes to mind. Putting out a $42K Z car that would get soundly beaten in all aspects by a new GT Mustang...

Originally Posted by Toroll

The 2zz and K20 also have variable valve timing on the intake side only. VVT doesn't have to do anything with ability to rev high. Like I said, the stroke dictates how high you will rev (some other supporting components like valve spring stiffness play role too). However, revving high doesn't always mean you will make power up top. The 2nd cam profile in 2zz and k20 main role is to maintain the power climb at high RPM. Yes, the 2zz/k20 can still rev high even without VTEC or LIFT activated. The only problem is, it will not make power in high RPM using the low cam profile.

Again, the FA20 should be able to rev high because of the short stroke but it doesn't mean it will continue to make power up at high RPM. Unfortunately, stock FA20 drops power at around 7000 rpm (actually pretty impressive considering that many other engine with 1 cam profile can't do that) and it would still be nice to continue revving up to 8000rpm even if the power drops a little bit so that when you shift, you are not too close to the torque deep.

The closest comparison I can think of for FA20 is the old 2.0L 3S-GE beams (same 86mm x 86mm, both have dual VVT-i and only 1 cam profile). Toyota actually made the beams rev at 8000 rpm making stock 212hp@7500rpm and 162ft-lbs@4800rpm which is pretty impressive for an old engine.

Conclusion: There are still many ways Toyota/Subaru can do to make the FA20 make more N/A power. This is just the FA20 Gen1.. the 3S-GE and 4A-GE underwent evolution up to Gen 5. I really do hope that the FA20 will not follow the faith of the 2zz-ge which only have 1 version. Next thing we know, FA20 gets Toyota valvematic.. baaaam! 260hp N/A.

The FA20 revs just fine, it just doesn't make power up there... You need more lift, which the different cam profiles allow.

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

One day I hope a 275hp 250 torque version is released. I hope it has +150 lbs of weight and destroys the drive train from beginning to end, clutch, gearbox, differential, the whole thing within the first year of owning it. I hope that the car is made so fast that you have to brake it from 140mph down to 25mph on a turn because it has so much front end weight that it plows you off the road in either direction.

So an Audi?

Originally Posted by Yardjass

What exactly is the point you're trying to make here? Whether or not they offered the NA Miata with a turbo option is irrelevant. If needed, the stronger six speed from the mazdaspeed bolts right up (a benefit that does not yet exist for us) and there are tons of them running around, safely running the original 5 speeds and supercharger/turbocharger kits making high 100's to low 200's at the wheels, and people love them.

There's a kit to bolt in the V160 out of the MKIV Supra Turbo....but the transmission is crazy expensive. Kit could also be used to bolt in a R154 out of the MKIII Supra, but that's a 5 speed.

[~el~jefe~]

Lol Poodles

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by Poodles

There's a kit to bolt in the V160 out of the MKIV Supra Turbo....but the transmission is crazy expensive. Kit could also be used to bolt in a R154 out of the MKIII Supra, but that's a 5 speed.

Wow, the Getrag fits and people are trying to say they couldn't fit a stout enough transmission from the factory?

Originally Posted by Poodles

And of course they killed off their small sports car prototype they had... I really want to like Nissan, but they keep doing stupid crap. Can't get AWD on the Juke with a stick comes to mind. Putting out a $42K Z car that would get soundly beaten in all aspects by a new GT Mustang...

On the rare occasion that I end up in a Nissan dealership ordering parts, they always try and get me to trade mine in. I just laugh at them. My car is a relic from a time when Nissan actually made good cars and wasn't lazy, and actually updated their platforms more often than once a decade.


Even the GT-R isn't something I'd own. No manual, no deal. Plus it is getting to the point where it needs a major overhaul and of course, they're not doing it.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Poodles

You really are clueless aren't you. Try actually reading up on development about it instead of all the crap GM spewed out to cover them putting out a crappy car.

Yeah, I'm not the one imagining a car that never existed in any form, even on paper. But hey - have fun with that.

[KoolBRZ]

How about something constructive to say about what the factory could be doing to get better reviews. (Outside of sheer bribery that is). I tune my own car with an OFT and I'm not afraid of pushing the envelope to get better performance. After years spent tuning the AVCS tables, they are about as good as they are going to get, so I've started changing the Drive-By-Wire tables. Wow, it is really easy to get better low-end torque. Judging from my experience, I think the factory should be making a sport model of the manual and automatic. These models would have a 4.55 Final Drive in the manual, and a 4.88 FD in the auto. The DBW, (Drive-By-Wire) tables would be re-mapped to provide up to 50% throttle before 3000 rpms, and up to 75% when the Sport button has been pressed. This gives the feeling of V6 power when accelerating moderately, like you would in traffic, and would help remove the torque dip at 3500 rpms. I thought having more power below 3000 rpms would make my mpg tank, but instead, I'm actually getting better highway mpg. City mpg still sucks, but it's so much more fun that I could care less, really. These are changes the factory could make easily, and would help them sell more cars. Any more ideas, anyone?

[Tcoat]

Oh thank god! I was afraid that in my absence there would be no experts appearing here to set things right. So relieved to see that we have people that have swapped engines, tuned their cars have great inside info what the public REALLY wants, know enough about the concept of automotive business plans and ROI and all the other highly specialized tasks that Toyota and Subaru apparently have no clue on. Who knew it would be so easy to just slap a different engine in or tune it to however you want without having to meet requirements? The factory should have been doing this all along it is so obviously simple. God those engineers at the manufacturer must be really dumb to not have thought of all the "facts" thrown out here. The amazing track record (of shit ideas) for some of the people posting (see above) surely places them miles ahead of those poor ignorant engineers. Oh, and the profitability of these changed cars must be there since some random 20 year old on the internet says it is. I am soooo glad that somebody is putting all those thousands of accounting and marketing people with years of experience in their place. They had it coming to them for being so lazy and stupid.


You guys are fucking hilarious!

[Guru Woodman]

Lol @Tcoat. I was wondering when you would chip it. This is the most ridiculous thread in ages.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Guru Woodman

Lol @Tcoat. I was wondering when you would chip it. This is the most ridiculous thread in ages.

This thread was one of the reasons why I took a break for a while. Some of these morons (you can figure out who they are) were going to push my buttons until I got myself banned again. It is a fun read now though.

[yip]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh thank god! I was afraid that in my absence there would be no experts appearing here to set things right. So relieved to see that we have people that have swapped engines, tuned their cars have great inside info what the public REALLY wants, know enough about the concept of automotive business plans and ROI and all the other highly specialized tasks that Toyota and Subaru apparently have no clue on. Who knew it would be so easy to just slap a different engine in or tune it to however you want without having to meet requirements? The factory should have been doing this all along it is so obviously simple. God those engineers at the manufacturer must be really dumb to not have thought of all the "facts" thrown out here. The amazing track record (of shit ideas) for some of the people posting (see above) surely places them miles ahead of those poor ignorant engineers. Oh, and the profitability of these changed cars must be there since some random 20 year old on the internet says it is. I am soooo glad that somebody is putting all those thousands of accounting and marketing people with years of experience in their place. They had it coming to them for being so lazy and stupid.


You guys are fucking hilarious!

Fucking love it!

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh thank god! I was afraid that in my absence there would be no experts appearing here to set things right. So relieved to see that we have people that have swapped engines, tuned their cars have great inside info what the public REALLY wants, know enough about the concept of automotive business plans and ROI and all the other highly specialized tasks that Toyota and Subaru apparently have no clue on. Who knew it would be so easy to just slap a different engine in or tune it to however you want without having to meet requirements? The factory should have been doing this all along it is so obviously simple. God those engineers at the manufacturer must be really dumb to not have thought of all the "facts" thrown out here. The amazing track record (of shit ideas) for some of the people posting (see above) surely places them miles ahead of those poor ignorant engineers. Oh, and the profitability of these changed cars must be there since some random 20 year old on the internet says it is. I am soooo glad that somebody is putting all those thousands of accounting and marketing people with years of experience in their place. They had it coming to them for being so lazy and stupid.


You guys are fucking hilarious!

Bam! Fully rested and ready to battle the interwebs!