SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Yes, but a fully TRD equipped 2017 would be in CS. My money is on the 2017s with stock springs/sways to go to DS.

I think there's a good chance that all 2017s, both the 86 and BRZ and regardless of packages/parts, will be CS, at least for 2017.

[MarkG]

Anyone have thoughts about how the shorter gearing on the 2017 version will affect it in autocross?

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by MarkG

Anyone have thoughts about how the shorter gearing on the 2017 version will affect it in autocross?

Be ready to go to 3rd on a ton of courses and be competent on downshifts to 2nd

[pszuvela]

Originally Posted by Locust

I just ran the times for all the NDs and all the 86s through a spreadsheet and got the averages.

Average ND Times
East: 64.544
West: 61.972

Average 86 Times (including Ogburn)
East: 65.723
West: 63.056

So ya... it's over a second better on each course on average. The lowest ND finished 67th. Lowest twin was 84th. 7/23 trophies went to NDs for 17 entries. 10/23 trophies went to twins for 40 entries. That's a 41.1% trophy rate for the ND and a 25% trophy rate for an 86. Based upon class participation you would expect an even distribution to be 4-5 NDs (~4.5) in trophies and 10-11 (~10.7) 86s.


More numbers for everyone...

Average A-Street East: 64.491
Average B-Street East: 65.406
Average Miata East: 64.544
Average FR-S Only East: 65.579 (still a full second gap even if you remove BRZs)
Average BRZ Only East: 66.638 (sample set of 6 drivers only)
Average D-Street East: 66.947

Now I have no way of knowing which FR-S drivers are on TRD parts and which aren't so the BRZ only statistic isn't very representative since the sample size is so small. However, just looking at the times there does anyone have any doubt that we would kill all of D-Street if moved down? Meanwhile the ND Miata is just five hundredths off A-Street and NINE TENTHS faster than B-Street.

I'm still fairly new to AutoX, having gone to 6-8 local non-sanctioned events. I just joined SCCA and am looking forward to competing in some sanctioned events in 2017.


Reading through some of this (very long) thread I see the BRZ is generally slower than the FR-S. I know the FR-S is a little lighter (50-75lbs or so?) which would give a slight advantage. What else is contributing to this?


At the local events I go to there are usually 3-5 twins and none have been quicker than me. I have 3 trophies for RWD at those events and I don't think any of the other twins have finished top 5. There are usually 25-35 RWD entries. Not to brag, I just have always thought the BRZ is very well set up for AutoX.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by pszuvela

I'm still fairly new to AutoX, having gone to 6-8 local non-sanctioned events. I just joined SCCA and am looking forward to competing in some sanctioned events in 2017.


Reading through some of this (very long) thread I see the BRZ is generally slower than the FR-S. I know the FR-S is a little lighter (50-75lbs or so?) which would give a slight advantage. What else is contributing to this?


At the local events I go to there are usually 3-5 twins and none have been quicker than me. I have 3 trophies for RWD at those events and I don't think any of the other twins have finished top 5. There are usually 25-35 RWD entries. Not to brag, I just have always thought the BRZ is very well set up for AutoX.

I assume you're talking about the Monroe / Evergreen events? BRZ was unable to use TRD sway bars or TRD springs which some people estimate at a half second advantage (I think it's closer to 2-3 tenths but no one has really done the extensive testing to prove it). They're both fast cars but I'd caution you not to read too much into your local results. Get outside of your area and see the various other clubs and you'll start to get a feel for how the cars perform relative to each other and other platforms.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the events you're running in aren't indexed based upon mods/classes and just have a FWD, RWD, and AWD brackets right? The SCCA is significantly more structured with very specific limits on the mods you can run in each class and how that affects your index. So, for example, you can't just show up with a tuned BRZ and compare yourself to a bunch of un-tuned, stock class FR-S' and BRZs because you're in different classes.

[pszuvela]

Thanks for the info on the sway bars. Can't you still run a twin in C class with one swapped sway bar? Am I wrong to think that an FR-S with a good aftermarket (ie: Whiteline) front sway upgrade would have a similar effect to one with both front and rear TRD bars?

You are correct on the location and that they aren't indexed. Now that I'm an SCCA member I plan to get plugged into some of the local events. What ones do you go to? Information on the PNW region website seems rather outdated. Do you have a better source for event info?

I agree I can't compare the competition at a Monroe AutoX to a sanctioned SCCA event. I'm very excited to get improve myself and learn tips and techniques from better drivers.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by MarkG

Anyone have thoughts about how the shorter gearing on the 2017 version will affect it in autocross?

I have the 2017 and I would not want to autocross it (over a previous year model) in the stock/street class.

It goes 57mph in 2nd gear and of course the hard limiter with stock tune.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Be ready to go to 3rd on a ton of courses and be competent on downshifts to 2nd

Wait...did you get an FRS???

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by justinco

Wait...did you get an FRS???

I don't know. Did I?

PS - Not a 2017. FB Official tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pszuvela]

Originally Posted by justinco

I have the 2017 and I would not want to autocross it (over a previous year model) in the stock/street class.

It goes 57mph in 2nd gear and of course the hard limiter with stock tune.

1st question - Have you driven stock '13-'16 twin to compare the difference?
2nd question - If you have, does it pull better from 3,500-4,500rpm?

[justinco]

Originally Posted by pszuvela

1st question - Have you driven stock '13-'16 twin to compare the difference?
2nd question - If you have, does it pull better from 3,500-4,500rpm?

I went from a 2013 FRS to the 2017 BRZ, so yes

The new car does pull better everywhere, however the torque dip is still there. See my videos in sig'

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by pszuvela

Thanks for the info on the sway bars. Can't you still run a twin in C class with one swapped sway bar? Am I wrong to think that an FR-S with a good aftermarket (ie: Whiteline) front sway upgrade would have a similar effect to one with both front and rear TRD bars?

Even if you change out one sway bar on a non-TRD FRS or BRZ, it will not match the TRD FRS. The TRD FRS stock sway bars are now the TRD ones. So you can change out one of those TRD sway bars, and still keep the other TRD sway bar.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by pszuvela

Thanks for the info on the sway bars. Can't you still run a twin in C class with one swapped sway bar? Am I wrong to think that an FR-S with a good aftermarket (ie: Whiteline) front sway upgrade would have a similar effect to one with both front and rear TRD bars?

You are correct on the location and that they aren't indexed. Now that I'm an SCCA member I plan to get plugged into some of the local events. What ones do you go to? Information on the PNW region website seems rather outdated. Do you have a better source for event info?

I agree I can't compare the competition at a Monroe AutoX to a sanctioned SCCA event. I'm very excited to get improve myself and learn tips and techniques from better drivers.

You can run one sway bar, front or rear. But the TRD allowance lets you run TRD rear and an aftermarket front.

SCCA events in NWR are done for the year. Check back here: http://nwr-scca.org/solo/schedule.asp in February/March for next year's schedule. We're still finalizing it and then national office has to give us their dates for national tour.

[pszuvela]

Originally Posted by Locust

You can run one sway bar, front or rear. But the TRD allowance lets you run TRD rear and an aftermarket front.

SCCA events in NWR are done for the year. Check back here: http://nwr-scca.org/solo/schedule.asp in February/March for next year's schedule. We're still finalizing it and then national office has to give us their dates for national tour.

To clarify: In my 2013 BRZ, C Street allows me to put a TRD rear sway bar on and still run an aftermarket front bar?

Here's my current list of mods. I'll have to take some off to be in C Street, which is a better plan for me given the ol' budget. (This is my DD)
- Grimmspeed cold air intake (remove)
- Grimmspeed front strut tower bar (remove)
- Open Flash Tablet (reflash to stock)
- Eibach Pro Springs (possibly buy Konis and a used set of stock struts)
- Stoptech Street pads (keep or upgrade to more aggressive pads for events only)
- Whiteline front camber bolts (keep)
- Enkei RPF1 17x8 with Hankook Ventus R-S3 225/45/17 (possibly put Hankooks on the stock wheels?)

Question on tires:
I think I read somewhere in the 2016 rulebook that the tires have to be less than 2 years old. Is that correct? I bought the wheels and tires off a guy on Craigslist and he'd had them for a few years so I think they're 4-5 years old.