CSG Mike's personal 2017 BRZ build and thoughts.

[BrokenSouls]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

After a few weeks of driving the car around, here are my thoughts.

- The 2017 is a HUGE improvement over the 2013-2016 car. The core of the car hasn't changed, but this is a more mature, better dialed in version of the car. Overall, this is what the car should have been, in 2013. Driving this and a 13-16 back to back, I can tell the original car was rushed, and not quite what it could have been.

- I much prefer the output of the 2013's HIDs, to the 17's LEDs. The HIDs could be leveled manually, whereas the LEDs are fixed height. The factory aim is legal, but on the high side, and regularly blinds drivers on the other side of the road. I've quite frequently been high-beamed by a driver at an opposing stoplight, who thinks I have my high beams on. Additionally, the older HIDs output a much broader spectrum of light, versus the LEDs, which put out a lot of blue, but very little yellow or green. As a result, green/white highway signs are almost black/white at night, and yellow center lines are a very pale highlighter yellow instead of a very rich orange/cheese yellow. High beam output and spread are about similar.

- The balance of the 17 is far, far superior to the 13. The 13 was an understeering pig, that only kicked the rear end out if you forced it, or made a grievous driving error (contrary to what the press would like you to believe). The 17 is much more balanced with changed spring rates and a stiffer rear sway bar (how many of you have seen me preach a stiffer rear sway on stock suspension for years now?), and I have, literally, not had VSC intervene once, while driving the car around. Even going around corners, WOT, at what I would consider somewhat questionable speeds, the VSC does not intervene, because the car is not losing control. I can get a nice bit of throttle steer around corners with the stock output, but the output is not enough to actually kick the rear out.

- The only time I've had VSC intervene, is when I've intentionally done something to see when it would kick in.

- The OEM Primacys are excellently matched to the stock output. Yes, there could be more grip. Yes, there could be faster response. No, more grip and response wouldn't make for a better stock car. Think Miata. The new Miata is intentionally designed for driver enjoyment, rather than pure performance. I believe that's why these tires were chosen. That, and MPG. The OEM tires also make a nice, audible white noise under cornering, that changes to a screeching when you start approaching, and then exceeding the limit.

- I've averaged around 30-31 MPG combined. That's taking into account a stop-and-go traffic, some light canyoning, the occasional redline sprint, and commuting on the highway. I fully expect this to drop 20-25% once I put on a stickier, non-low-rolling-resistance tire.

- I like the diameter of the steering wheel versus the older steering wheel. I don't, however, like the new material. Even though it's technically "nicer", it feels cheap. I also don't like how the back of the wheel, at the connecting points of the "T", stick out.

- The steering wheel controls are convenient, but that's about it. The Mute button is nice. Every car needs a mute button. My s2000 has one, and my 3000GT VR4 had one.

- The LSD tuning is different. This one is less harsh, or at least it seems to engage less harshly. In a 13, I would hear it chatter making u-turns when cold. This one seems to chatter less. Maybe it's a function of the 4.3 final drive, or the factory fluid, vs the thicker stuff I normally use.

- The torque dip is much narrower now. The car is much friendlier to drive around in traffic, since the powerband extends up to 4k instead of 3k like before. Coming out of the torque dip is, literally, like hitting Vtec in the s2k. You will feel it, and hear it. If you're in the torque dip, it's worse than before.

- The car seems much friendlier on 91 than before. Race gas saw virtually zero power gains. The car attempted to advance timing, failed, and decremented the IAM, temporarily losing power.

- The car wants to dump fuel at high RPMs much more aggressively, to protect the cat. Anytime you want to redline, you may need to do a few pulls to actually get full power, at least on the stock tune.

- The new leather touches in the interior look nice, especially the dash piece.

- I'm not a fan of the "piano black" bezel on the new head unit. It will scratch very easily.

- The new head unit "lags". By that, I mean the bluetooth input has a delay of about a second, whereas the 13/14 head unit does not. The Pandora integration is nice, but because the head unit is slow, trying to scroll through radio stations to find one is annoying.

Amazing! thank you for all of the information, i will be getting an 86 soon! one think that has me confused is people complaining about passing someone in the highway, i drive a hyundai elantra, 150hp; on the HW all i do is downshift and pass easily. if a 150hp car can do it a 200hp surely has no problem.

[Mim]

Originally Posted by BrokenSouls

Amazing! thank you for all of the information, i will be getting an 86 soon! one think that has me confused is people complaining about passing someone in the highway, i drive a hyundai elantra, 150hp; on the HW all i do is downshift and pass easily. if a 150hp car can do it a 200hp surely has no problem.

Some are simply used to the shove of big HP cars. The twins are fine though. If anything the road noise resulting from an almost complete absence of sound deadening, along with the low down ride height will create a far greater sense of speed than you are actually doing.

As you said with your current car, just down shift if you need more poke.

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

- The 2017 is a HUGE improvement over the 2013-2016 car. The core of the car hasn't changed, but this is a more mature, better dialed in version of the car. Overall, this is what the car should have been, in 2013. Driving this and a 13-16 back to back, I can tell the original car was rushed, and not quite what it could have been.

This is definitely how I feel.

What's up with the oil cooler though?

[brzaapi]

I have been waiting for your insight on this Mike. Since we are thinking about adding another BRZ back in the stable. But this next car will likely be weekend/road fun car and not a track toy. So having a better dialed in suspension is great to hear, as I dont want to have to address the suspension at all in the next car, or at the very least it will be the last thing i do. Not that the previous gens (13-16) needed suspension upgrades for DD work, but better is better.

But for track rats, does the suspension setup on the '17 mitigate the need for a an upgraded LSD? Or is it still a must have?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

I have been waiting for your insight on this Mike. Since we are thinking about adding another BRZ back in the stable. But this next car will likely be weekend/road fun car and not a track toy. So having a better dialed in suspension is great to hear, as I dont want to have to address the suspension at all in the next car, or at the very least it will be the last thing i do. Not that the previous gens (13-16) needed suspension upgrades for DD work, but better is better.

But for track rats, does the suspension setup on the '17 mitigate the need for a an upgraded LSD? Or is it still a must have?

Nothing is a "must have" for a weekend/road fun car... how deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

Depending on your perspective, I may not be going very far at all, or I may be going far deeper than most people would ever go.

In your specific case, I think if I explained out the planned build, you'd agree with the execution, although perhaps not the goal.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Nothing is a "must have" for a weekend/road fun car... how deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

Depending on your perspective, I may not be going very far at all, or I may be going far deeper than most people would ever go.

In your specific case, I think if I explained out the planned build, you'd agree with the execution, although perhaps not the goal.

Haha, i love how subjective and in the "grey" your answers are...except i always understand exactly what you are getting at.

But, no, for a DD an LSD is a luxury and not needed at all to me. However, on the track i imagine i would still want one. But if we get another BRZ, it will likely run some PSS rubber and a SC kit, good street pads. Something fun to hoon around in on the road. It may hit an AX or two...but i wouldnt build it for that purpose. Either way, with what i have read so far (and hearing your thoughts), I would rather just go by a '17 at invoice than try and find a used one that fits my requirements.

I look forward to your build.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

Haha, i love how subjective and in the "grey" your answers are...except i always understand exactly what you are getting at.

So often the right answer is, "It depends". Unfortunately that's not always what people want to hear.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

So often the right answer is, "It depends". Unfortunately that's not always what people want to hear.

Most people just want validation on their chosen part.

Just yesterday I was accused of only promoting parts from companies that sponsor me. If only they knew how wrong they were...

[brzaapi]

In our quest for Knowledge, and my quest to get the right car.

Knowing now, that the '15+ model years had many small but important improvements to the FA20 (many that were not easily found) that made the engine more reliable, stonger, etc.

As far as you know Mike (or anyone for that matter), are there any other small improvements to the FA20 (in the '17 models) in any shape or form that have not been mentioned....that will make the FA20 a better version than what is in the '15,'16 cars. Obviously the OEM tuning is better, and the manifolds have been reworked on both ends, but any changes in internals, materials, block, heads, valves, etc.....

It may be way to early to know these things, but.............some jerk has got to ask the question.

[g0lds]

I'm waiting for a 2017 to show up at work (LKQ) to harvest some parts. I'm curious if us 13-16 owners would benefit from a 2017 air box and if we could plug and play a 2017 steering wheel+clock spring into our cars to gain steering wheel controls.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by g0lds

I'm waiting for a 2017 to show up at work (LKQ) to harvest some parts. I'm curious if us 13-16 owners would benefit from a 2017 air box and if we could plug and play a 2017 steering wheel+clock spring into our cars to gain steering wheel controls.

I'll be feasting my eyes on those Sachi Dampers 😛


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[johan]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

In our quest for Knowledge, and my quest to get the right car.

Knowing now, that the '15+ model years had many small but important improvements to the FA20 (many that were not easily found) that made the engine more reliable, stonger, etc.

As far as you know Mike (or anyone for that matter), are there any other small improvements to the FA20 (in the '17 models) in any shape or form that have not been mentioned....that will make the FA20 a better version than what is in the '15,'16 cars. Obviously the OEM tuning is better, and the manifolds have been reworked on both ends, but any changes in internals, materials, block, heads, valves, etc.....

It may be way to early to know these things, but.............some jerk has got to ask the question.

It's already well known that the '17 MY Manual transmission engines got a significant rework across the entire engine. You need to go find and read the leaked PDF on the '17 MY BRZ changes.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by johan

It's already well known that the '17 MY Manual transmission engines got a significant rework across the entire engine. You need to go find and read the leaked PDF on the '17 MY BRZ changes.

I think i have read and heard of tidbits of that info, but i will search some and see what else i can find. Thanks.


EDIT: Smartass, yep i found it. Answers every question i had. Thats what i get for being lazy.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

In our quest for Knowledge, and my quest to get the right car.

Knowing now, that the '15+ model years had many small but important improvements to the FA20 (many that were not easily found) that made the engine more reliable, stonger, etc.

As far as you know Mike (or anyone for that matter), are there any other small improvements to the FA20 (in the '17 models) in any shape or form that have not been mentioned....that will make the FA20 a better version than what is in the '15,'16 cars. Obviously the OEM tuning is better, and the manifolds have been reworked on both ends, but any changes in internals, materials, block, heads, valves, etc.....

It may be way to early to know these things, but.............some jerk has got to ask the question.

There are some internal reinforcements, but I don't know the net effect of these changes so far.

FWIW, most of the world is not getting this engine, yet.