Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[why?]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Negative. GM neutered the car and the last year was what the car should have been from the beginning. Typical parts bin and badge engineering garbage that got them to the brink of destruction. It used a FWD suspension setup flipped around...

So did Toyota with every MR2. You say it like it was a negative. Parts bin happens in every single manufacturer, including all the luxury ones without which car prices would be even more crazier than they are now.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Toroll

This is the problem when one becomes a car fanboy instead of car enthusiast and closes his mind to all other options. You only see our Twin as THE ONLY CAR!

Oh yeah, about an MR-S being flipped and driver dying...
Do you really think that TOYOTA who also made your car is stupid enough not to make the MR-S safe? Toyota will happily say "Shame on you, if you don't trust me, don't drive my cars".





You don't need a strong roof to support a gokart. The driver and passenger walked away with no harm.

Crash the front end and flip your MR-S at a ditch then make sure you take plenty of pics with a hand written note that reads "TOROLL FT-86.com" or it didn't happen.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I'd bet you $5 that the money Toyobaru spent on designing the facelift is 1/10th what it would cost to bring a quality "TRD/STI" trim to market.

I'm not sure about that. A lot of the R&D is already out of the way by way of the FA20DIT in the WRX.


I think what irritates some people is that this is one instance where a "parts bin special" would be easy, make sense and pretty much be celebrated by everyone.


And unlike most every other company in that situation, Subayota flat out refuses to do it.


Regardless of your opinion of the 86's powah, you have to admit, it's a bit baffling why they would spend so much time and effort on 5hp/5tq and not just offer a FA20DIT-equipped trim.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I'm not sure about that. A lot of the R&D is already out of the way by way of the FA20DIT in the WRX.


I think what irritates some people is that this is one instance where a "parts bin special" would be easy, make sense and pretty much be celebrated by everyone.


And unlike most every other company in that situation, Subayota flat out refuses to do it.


Regardless of your opinion of the 86's powah, you have to admit, it's a bit baffling why they would spend so much time and effort on 5hp/5tq and not just offer a FA20DIT-equipped trim.

I wonder if it comes down to if Subaru did the swap would it take away from WRX sales. Sorta like Porsche not wanting a Boxster to outperform a 911.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by jmark

I wonder if it comes down to if Subaru did the swap would it take away from WRX sales. Sorta like Porsche not wanting a Boxster to outperform a 911.

Who knows? I remember back in the 90s/00s GM always detuned the Camaros and Trans Ams because they didn't want them running with the Vettes, even though they both had the same engines. GM has since admitted that that was their reasoning.

[DoomsdayJesus]

I love car and driver for a lot of things. This article was not one of them.

My last three cars have been an SRT-4 on the autobahn, an '03 E46 coupe, and the BRZ.

I'll take the BRZ any day of the week. Some days I'm amazed I survived the SRT-4. I loved it's speed and acceleration but it couldn't handle for shit. The E46 was fun but expensive as hell to maintain and heavy.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

I love car and driver for a lot of things. This article was not one of them.

My last three cars have been an SRT-4 on the autobahn, an '03 E46 coupe, and the BRZ.

I'll take the BRZ any day of the week. Some days I'm amazed I survived the SRT-4. I loved it's speed and acceleration but it couldn't handle for shit. The E46 was fun but expensive as hell to maintain and heavy.

Weird, I had a CSRT4 and aside from the massive torque steer the car handled awesome. With the huge brakes and special suspension bits that car is one of the funnest things I have ever driven.


I know the SRT4 neon had the ACR package available which seems to do really well at autox.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Negative. GM neutered the car and the last year was what the car should have been from the beginning. Typical parts bin and badge engineering garbage that got them to the brink of destruction. It used a FWD suspension setup flipped around...

You can't neuter something that was designed that way to begin with. Chevette front suspension and Citation driveline in the rear was EXACTLY parts bin engineering, which was the intention from day one. Even all the original prototypes that were leaked to the magazines had a simple 4-popper GM motor. It was designed as a stylish, affordable car for Joe and Jane Average. Every road test article of the day started with the caveat that GM had repeatedly declared they designed this as a commuter car, not as a performance car. Media pressure and subsequent public outcry was the only reason the reengineered it to be something else.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

I love car and driver for a lot of things. This article was not one of them.

My last three cars have been an SRT-4 on the autobahn, an '03 E46 coupe, and the BRZ.

I'll take the BRZ any day of the week. Some days I'm amazed I survived the SRT-4. I loved it's speed and acceleration but it couldn't handle for shit. The E46 was fun but expensive as hell to maintain and heavy.

Was your Srt-4 a 2003? I had a 2005 and took it to the track a couple of times. It did very well considering it's FWD. I also had aftermarket swaybars on it though.

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Weird, I had a CSRT4 and aside from the massive torque steer the car handled awesome. With the huge brakes and special suspension bits that car is one of the funnest things I have ever driven.


I know the SRT4 neon had the ACR package available which seems to do really well at autox.

I've always wanted to drive a CSRT-4.

[prj3ctm4yh3m]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I'm not sure about that. A lot of the R&D is already out of the way by way of the FA20DIT in the WRX.


I think what irritates some people is that this is one instance where a "parts bin special" would be easy, make sense and pretty much be celebrated by everyone.


And unlike most every other company in that situation, Subayota flat out refuses to do it.


Regardless of your opinion of the 86's powah, you have to admit, it's a bit baffling why they would spend so much time and effort on 5hp/5tq and not just offer a FA20DIT-equipped trim.

D4S: better heads and port injection. we will look back and rejoice.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I've always wanted to drive a CSRT-4.

Nice ones are hard to come by, but the couple I've driven were hysterically fun. Mine had a bit done to it and was over 300 to the wheels. If you get the chance to drive one, do it. Definitely the poster child for torque steer though!

[pinski]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I'm not sure about that. A lot of the R&D is already out of the way by way of the FA20DIT in the WRX.

It's hard to say. I'm reminded of this old 944 Turbo advert:

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

Regardless of your opinion of the 86's powah, you have to admit, it's a bit baffling why they would spend so much time and effort on 5hp/5tq and not just offer a FA20DIT-equipped trim.

I am baffled, but not in a bad way.
On the contrary, I'm surprised that Subaru/Toyota went to the great lengths of making so many parts of the engine and transmission more efficient in order to eke out those last few drops.

The easier solution would be to just drop in a 2.5L or a turbo (and completely unravel the whole "low CoG" thing), just to shut up the "more power" crowd.
But it seems they were very adamant about what the mission of this car is (or as someone else noted, very wary of cannibalizing the WRX - although it's hard to believe an ungainly 4dr sedan is being cross-shopped with a 2 door coupe).

I actually feel the need to give Subaru/Toyota props for making such changes for what is really only a stopgap until the second gen arrives (IF it arrives).

[Toroll]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Crash the front end and flip your MR-S at a ditch then make sure you take plenty of pics with a hand written note that reads "TOROLL FT-86.com" or it didn't happen.

I don't really get where the hate is coming from. Are you jealous I have another car that is cheaper and more capable?

Originally Posted by Poodles

Comparing an old ass car that can't meet current emission or crash safety ratings to a new car with a full warranty and that meets all those standards is, frankly, absurd. It's the same argument that's played out for years about a twin vs S2000. Not to mention the MR-S is the least practical car out there that actually has a roof. After seeing the storage on that car I laughed and stopped looking at them as they're simply not usable. You know though, the real irony of all this is that 0-60 is cut down a LOT with the rev limit raised to hit 60 at the top of second instead of taking 2 shifts.

The simple point of the matter is that I've never had any situations where I couldn't get by someone if I wanted to. Momentum is a bitch and unless you have Corvette level power, it's not happening. From a dig, 99% of people won't full throttle.

By definition, a sports car is a car that can be used in sports e.g. racing...

BRB, gonna go buy a Supra and spank your MR-S... You see this can go on forever, right?

One cannot compare new cars with full warranties to old cars. It's the very definition of moving goalposts...

Sigh.. So if a person who wants a cheap sporty car that will be tracked once in awhile is not allowed to choose from discontinued car? What kind of a logic is this? What does warranty have to do with a casual track car? Also, people who knows how to hold a wrench do not need warranty. The Spyder is so simple and cheap to repair. The 2zz is proven engine and the choice of Lotus. If a 2zz ever grenades, it is so cheap that you don't even want to repair it because you can just buy another.

A casual (middle class) car enthusiast will look at performance per dollar and the 2zz MR-S will win over the Twin by a long shot. Most people buy cars and most of them have budget in mind. Also, people who wants to track, mod and abuse their cars will not likely get a brand new car. Your warranty will not probably cover that if they knew it was tracked.

The stock 1zz MR-S have identical performance with our twin.. it is basically the closest car the twin have replaced so it is only logical to compare the two.

My twin is my primary DD. I have it because it is sporty, more comfy, more room and has some modern amenities but I also have the Spyder as my 2nd DD and I use it when I am feeling like I want a more spirited driving and if I want to track/autoX. The two were created with sporty performance in mind (not for grocery getter, that's what the Corolla is for) and I tell you what, the 2zz MR-S will shit on the a stock Twin anytime of the day performance wise... also way cheaper, and slightly better in MPG. Everything else, the Twin wins (comfy wise, room, practicality, safety, smell).

Your complains about shifting more on getting a low 0-60 is legit... but I tell you son, you cannot use this as an excuse in a quarter mile test. Our Twin only traps at best at 94mph, a stock corolla 05' XRS can easily do that. It isn't really that impressive anymore. Many vehicles are now capable of that.

BTW, you cannot spank my N/A 2zz MR-S with a Supra in twisties. The MR-S is not a drag racing queen like the Supra. The MR-S will also be cheaper and probably safer.