Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Torque dip complainers: You gotta downshift before accelerating.

...at JUST the right moment.

I love this car, and the dip itself isn't a big issue to me, but it would be nice if the penalty for shifting a little too soon or a little too late were not so binary.

There is a 400rpm window flanked by the "Your call is very important to us, please hold for the next available horse power" torque dip and the "Go sit in corner and think about what you've done" rev limiter.

I get that doing something "just right" should be faster and like it that way, but a speed-holding rev-limmiter and a torque dip that ended 500rpms lower would be very helpful.

Heck, something as simple as a shift buzzer that's at least as loud as the crickets might make hitting the narrow shift window while on track a bit easier.

[mrg666]

This car is so beautiful, buyers forget what they really want and buy the 86/BRZ without understanding what it is. This is not a pony, it is a "real" sports car. The ones complain about power, torque dip are the buyers that actually wanted a pony. Plus, it is so easy turn an 86 into an asphalt digger with an additional cost of 6-7k. Such a beautiful and capable car below 30k is the deal of a life time. I gotta go drive some; it is beautiful out there today. I'll let the others read articles; I've got the real one!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

They are not Subarus. I am not eager to change my brand. At least not for the time being.

When I bought the BRZ, the other option was to wait for the STI. At that time the old STI wasn't available anymore and the new one was not announced. I didn't want to wait so much and besides I wanted something more compact.

So you wanted a 400HP sub $30K (more for you I know) super car? Subaru should make that beast because you have brand loyalty?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So you wanted a 400HP sub $30K (more for you I know) super car? Subaru should make that beast because you have brand loyalty?

Let's say that 15 years ago, they were doing something like this. The first WRXs and STIs were very close to the super car territory and there were not that expensive. Nowadays? I don't think they want to do it again. They got their lesson when their high-performance engines were banned from Europe for several years and when in general the company was near to bankruptcy. Modern standards and regulations of emissions is the current rule of game and "makes" the current players. You named most of them before. However, this doesn't daunt me to say my opinion.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Twinz

There is a 400rpm window flanked by the "Your call is very important to us, please hold for the next available horse power" torque dip and the "Go sit in corner and think about what you've done" rev limiter

I completely agree with this. I've been driving on the stock tune this week and was reminded of the AWFUL stock rev limiter. When it drops, it's like the car shears the drive shaft clean off. It literally cuts all power and leaves you wondering if you broke something. That and the idle is garbage compared to aftermarket tunes too.

To drive this car to max rpm without fear, you really need a tune with a softer limiter that you can ride for a second if necessary (like in autox).

[Lantana frs]

Lets not forget that these cars get tail happy with 190 whp (tuned). Imo anything over 200 whp would require a redesign just for liability reasons. Toyota has probably gotten tired of court rooms and 60 minutes.

[Lantana frs]

The 86 is an enthusiast car, not a penis pump. Personally, I find tuning to be a fascinating pain in the ass. Oft and power blocks has made the torque dip a small undulation. My next step is header to compensate for the power decrease during fl summers.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Twinz

...at JUST the right moment.

I love this car, and the dip itself isn't a big issue to me, but it would be nice if the penalty for shifting a little too soon or a little too late were not so binary.

There is a 400rpm window flanked by the "Your call is very important to us, please hold for the next available horse power" torque dip and the "Go sit in corner and think about what you've done" rev limiter.

I get that doing something "just right" should be faster and like it that way, but a speed-holding rev-limmiter and a torque dip that ended 500rpms lower would be very helpful.

Heck, something as simple as a shift buzzer that's at least as loud as the crickets might make hitting the narrow shift window while on track a bit easier.

I think this is the way of learning to drive a real sports car the right way. I didn't say it was easy It is not. But isn't it great to own a car that requires improving our driving and rewards us for that?

[guybo]

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

Lets not forget that these cars get tail happy with 190 whp (tuned). Imo anything over 200 whp would require a redesign just for liability reasons. Toyota has probably gotten tired of court rooms and 60 minutes.

Once I went catless and OFT stage 2, I could finally fishtail. Now I'm thinking my next mod should be wider rear tires to recapture that easy perfect 4 wheel drift- although the cars more fun now. I haven't put her on the rollers yet so I don't know she's making (still NA), but a little power goes a long way.

[Lantana frs]

Originally Posted by guybo

Once I went catless and OFT stage 2, I could finally fishtail. Now I'm thinking my next mod should be wider rear tires to recapture that easy perfect 4 wheel drift- although the cars more fun now. I haven't put her on the rollers yet so I don't know she's making (still NA), but a little power goes a long way.

When its cooler out, my car is just fine. Hot weather it goes to shit.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by guybo

Once I went catless and OFT stage 2, I could finally fishtail. Now I'm thinking my next mod should be wider rear tires to recapture that easy perfect 4 wheel drift- although the cars more fun now. I haven't put her on the rollers yet so I don't know she's making (still NA), but a little power goes a long way.

I disagree with this path. You are turning it into a snowplow.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I think this is the way of learning to drive a real sports car the right way. I didn't say it was easy It is not. But isn't it great to own a car that requires improving our driving and rewards us for that?

Doing things the hard way is not a "driving virtue" in and of itself.

There is no rule that requires a "drivers car" to inflict such draconian penalties upon drivers who fail to initiate the perfect input at the perfect time.

It reminds me of the Chevrolet "Rev it Up Challenge" where all the cars had the electronic nannies on whilst competitors were running for time. (Even the Corvettes)

Sure, putting down a fast lap required driving smooth enough to avoid electronic intervention, and "it wasn't easy", but that did not make driving with electronic nannies some sort of driving virtue, nor did it make the cars "better". It just made them a PITA to drive fast.

I think driver's cars should reward good driving, not just perfect driving.

For instance, I love the feel of a perfect launch in these cars. My last car was a 350Z with nasty wheel hop and these things are so much better. However, I can miss the "perfect" launch and still take off very well in this thing. My data logger has shown me giving up as much as a tenth of a second or two when I miss that "prefect launch" but the reward and penalty are relative to my proximity to "perfection".

The penalties for shifting a split second too late or early lack that same proportionality, and it doesn't have to be this way. (particularly with respect to the rev limiter)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Twinz

Doing things the hard way is not a "driving virtue" in and of itself.

There is no rule that requires a "drivers car" to inflict such draconian penalties upon drivers who fail to initiate the perfect input at the perfect time.

It reminds me of the Chevrolet "Rev it Up Challenge" where all the cars had the electronic nannies on whilst competitors were running for time. (Even the Corvettes)

Sure, putting down a fast lap required driving smooth enough to avoid electronic intervention, and "it wasn't easy", but that did not make driving with electronic nannies some sort of driving virtue, nor did it make the cars "better". It just made them a PITA to drive fast.

I think driver's cars should reward good driving, not just perfect driving.

For instance, I love the feel of a perfect launch in these cars. My last car was a 350Z with nasty wheel hop and these things are so much better. However, I can miss the "perfect" launch and still take off very well in this thing. My data logger has shown me giving up as much as a tenth of a second or two when I miss that "prefect launch" but the reward and penalty are relative to my proximity to "perfection".

The penalties for shifting a split second too late or early lack that same proportionality, and it doesn't have to be this way. (particularly with respect to the rev limiter)

You make that fraction of a second pause sound like the car shuts down. Not so. If it bothers people they just need to drive around it. Frankly I would never have even noticed it if people didn't tell me it was there.
So you lose a 100th of a second off your drag times. Does it have any impact on street driving? No and if it does then you are a menace to the public driving the car at 70% of it's capacity on public roads. I am tempted to get a Go Pro and record my street driving so all the torque dip proponents can show me one single moment when it interfered with what I was doing. I can be above any legal city speeds in about 3 seconds and exceed any highway ones in under10 so what if something else can do it in 2.6 and 8.9?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by guybo

Once I went catless and OFT stage 2, I could finally fishtail. Now I'm thinking my next mod should be wider rear tires to recapture that easy perfect 4 wheel drift- although the cars more fun now. I haven't put her on the rollers yet so I don't know she's making (still NA), but a little power goes a long way.

Your aim was to fishtail? How very odd.