Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Biz what Biz I'm just an enthuiast like everyone else, possibly 86expo staff that just makes me Ichitaka's minion number 3.

Jest aside I'm sure I'll get a chance to give him a "huge" If I ever meet him

Hahhaba

[Ultramaroon]

Itsuki got a turbo.



Takumi never needed one.

[why?]

Originally Posted by venturaII

This is exactly like what happened when the Pontiac Fiero was released. GM specifically stated that they were making a stylish commuter car, targeted at someone similar to a single, mid-thirties female secretary-type who wanted something that was reliable and looked good, and who would be driving it back and forth to work. Meanwhile, every one of the car magazines latched onto the sporty styling and immediately stated complaining that the performance didn't live up to the looks, despite that being GM's intention from day one. It was only due to pressure from the media industry and the associated complaints from it's readers that GM completely revamped the Fiero's performance (the '88 model was actually a pretty damn good car for it's time), though they'd lost so much on the car already (no help from poor sales due to aforementioned 'bad' reviews) that they just decided to axe the entire project..

actually the Fiero was wonderful. GM tested a twin turbo v6, saw it absolutely destroyed everything else in the lineup including all the Corvettes and just cancelled everything because GM decides nothing can come close to a Vette.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Itsuki got a turbo.



Takumi never needed one.

no he just got some freaky overbuilt hyperrevving racing engine and top of the line racing suspension, that's all.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by why?

no he just got some freaky overbuilt hyperrevving racing engine and top of the line racing suspension, that's all.

Never heard him bitch about torque dip either.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by why?

actually the Fiero was wonderful. GM tested a twin turbo v6, saw it absolutely destroyed everything else in the lineup including all the Corvettes and just cancelled everything because GM decides nothing can come close to a Vette.

Well, I agree that it became wonderful. Nothing using Chevette parts could be considered an enthusiast's vehicle...but that was the whole point of it - a cheap, fluffy car...all style and no requirement for substance. Yet public demand turned it into a driver's platform. The '88 Formula was a really nice car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Well, I agree that it became wonderful. Nothing using Chevette parts could be considered an enthusiast's vehicle...but that was the whole point of it - a cheap, fluffy car...all style and no requirement for substance. Yet public demand turned it into a driver's platform. The '88 Formula was a really nice car.

Yet they still continued to make that fluff version in greater volumes than the performance right to the end since that was where the money was. Much like many other cars with extreme versions they made way more of the base than the performance models. Performance models are never money makers they are just a draw to get the common folk to buy the fluff/base versions. Ford has done that with the Mustang since 1966.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yet they still continued to make that fluff version in greater volumes than the performance right to the end since that was where the money was. Much like many other cars with extreme versions they made way more of the base than the performance models. Performance models are never money makers they are just a draw to get the common folk to buy the fluff/base versions. Ford has done that with the Mustang since 1966.

And why shouldn't they? The cheap version was all they'd originally intended to produce, and stated so, since the day they introduced it to the public.

[darthpnoy1984]

I never get this bitching about power power lol it's hilarious we're too darn spoiled these days with choices.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by venturaII

And why shouldn't they? The cheap version was all they'd originally intended to produce, and stated so, since the day they introduced it to the public.

LOL I think you may have understood my response backwards. They indeed should have and I was not condemning but applauding that they stuck to them. I followed the car pretty closely back when it came out because I thought it was going to be an import killer. Even in the short time it existed they made something like 400K of them and that was no small number back in the 80s.
It is the fluff cars that provide the cash for the company to stay alive and make the performance ones. The top of the line Mustangs make almost nothing for Ford ( they could even lose money on them really) and it is all the base ones that allow them to build them at all.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am going to add something to all this (which is almost perfect) that may not be popular but I experienced it first had today.


This forum is made up of people that look at the car as an enthusiast platform and turn a blind eye to the reality of things. Yes this car was designed for the driver but that does not mean that the "normal" person does not buy it. Like the Miata, Mustang, Z Cars and yes the Holiest of Holies the S2000 there are probably hundreds or even thousands sold to people that think it is a cute little car and it will NEVER be driven as so many here say it was "meant to" be. Hate to break it to some but when it comes to the famous hairdresser cars of history the Twins are right near the top of the list.


About two hours ago I went out for a smoke and was shocked to see a BRZ in our lot (you have to understand these cars are scare in my area). I hung around for a few minutes and the owner came out. Turns out he is a robot programmer here from Toronto. I was talking to him and pointed out my car. He had NO CLUE that there was a Scion version or that Toyota had anything to do with the car. None. Nothing. He didn't even care there was since he said he bought it because it looked good and he liked two doors.


This is the majority buyer for the car. Not the track day fan, hooning enthusiast or forum bench racers. It is the same people that buy base Mustangs and Cameros because they like the looks and it is a pretty colour. They do not care what the horsepower is, they have no clue there is a torque dip and they sure as hell are not looking for 300hp turboed cars they can't drive in half the weather conditions they have too. This has been the way of sports car sales since the mid sixties and it isn't going to change now.


Proof I am not making the conversation above up!

I always thought Tcoat brought his twin for reeling/catching those fat salmons. 😂


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

I always thought Tcoat brought his twin for reeling/catching those fat salmons. 😂


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Nope. Need my buddy's truck to haul the boat. Yes I have a boat with no vehicle that can tow it.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nope. Need my buddy's truck to haul the boat. Yes I have a boat with no vehicle that can tow it.

Quick someone photoshop Tcoat's head to I'm on a boat meme!

Please?


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

Quick someone photoshop Tcoat's head to I'm on a boat meme!

Please?


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Hell, we will just create a new one! I am however a big fan of Samberg's work.

[Toroll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The build was $8K? The car was free? It was new when you got it? It meets all emission standards? Whooopie you build a custom car that is "better" all round. Good going. Now mass produce it and sell it for a profit.

You can buy a Spyder for $3k to $5k (check your local Craigslist). A 2zz + c60 is $2k. That's about $8k for a car that can go circles on any stock FT86. Rear engine high revving super lightweight car is different but better experience. For emission, it is hard to distinguish it is swapped with another. The swap is basically plug and play. OBD2 won't even tell you anything. You can easily fool smog technicians.

I have a twin for the cargo space and +2 seats. I don't like the spyder in the sense that I can only bring 1 chick at a time . Kidding aside, the twin is more practical for everyday use. It is more refined and smells better. I am willing to get rid of the Spyder and sell it to you twice the price if the Twin will get boosted from factory.

There will always be faster cars and some of them will be the grossly over powered sedans and SUVs. Needs more oomph for what? so you can get to the next light a 100th of a second before that Mustang? So you can play Fast an Furious for reals? I agree that there should be some sort of option for guys that feel they want more power but want is not need.

Funny that I can stab you with your own argument. Why did you get an FR-S/BRZ? You've chosen this particular car for what? .. is that a NEED or WANT??? You could have bought a Toyota Yaris for a lot cheaper and more cargo right? You know the thing is, it is more than a question of NEED or WANT... it is all about SATISFACTION. But then again, SATISFACTION varies from one person to another.. it seems that you are now very satisfied with your car and if so, don't be hard on people who are still searching for their satisfaction. Don't be hard on people who are hoping that someday, they will get a boosted FR-S/BRZ.