Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[Xxyion]

I find it funny he brought up the 240. I think he forgets people who wanted the 240 (like myself) wanted exactly what that car offered. Low center of gravity, good high revving engine, and a ton of drama potential around corners. I bought the BRZ because i've given up trying to find a 240 in good condition anymore (that people will part with). Will i boost in the future? probably. but not because i think this car NEEDS more power. But because i just want to do my own thing with the car.

[Ernest72]

All I know is mine is a blast to drive and great gas mileage. I have an 04 WRX as well which is much faster, but not nearly as good mileage. But I bought an auto BRZ for commuting 79 miles round trip and the WRX satisfies my power need and with snow tires kicks butt in the winter. I would prefer a BRZ with more torque with an NA motor. Don't want a turbo as it will mess with the handling of the car.

Also, I think you just need to drive it differently. When I pull out on the highway to pass in my WRX (only stage 2) there is tons of power and I am going 90 in no time at maybe 4500 rpm. With the BRZ at 4500 you are going no where, but push that foot further or downshift to get 5500 or higher and you are going, it just feels and sounds different. Get those revs up and the car is pretty good. A light responsive nimble car with no body roll is fun at any speed. And the steering is great. Would love to get that steering feel in my 04 WRX.

[strat61caster]

Two perfect statements about the car at the end of the article:

Bottom line? There’s no meaningful performance gain to be had for Subaru’s rather significant massaging of the BRZ. Fortunately, the changes come with an equally inconsequential $125 increase in base price...

At this rate, the BRZ and its counterpart, the Toyota 86, are destined to suffer the same fate as the late Nissan 240SX—another coupe with a fantastic chassis that desperately needed an engine to match. The Nissan died at the hands of bean counters disgruntled about low sales volume.

Yup it's a facelift model, not really worth trading in but a nice 'update' for those who held out or couldn't afford one before. All Japanese sports cars have a 5+ year cycle between major revisions, it ain't rocket science.

240sx is the perfect comparison, it didn't nail the mass market demands like a Mustang, but like the Miata, those who know, know. Nissan is STILL riding on the reputation it got from the few pitch perfect enthusiast models it made, just like BMW is.

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

IDK, it was a pretty big outcry when the 240 got the KA "truck" motor here and no other option. Sorry "a lot of people." lol.

I had that pickup with the single cam KA24E engine, it made more torque than the FA20 (thanks 2.4L of displacement), and even at 205k miles 25 years after leaving the factory, it still FELT like it made more torque, even in a pickup truck several hundred pounds heavier than the coupe. I like the KA24E, the KA24A, and the FA20, and I've liked every Miata engine I've driven or riden along in (all except the ND). No they don't offer the thrills of a V8 or high power turbo 4 (I've driven those too), but like the 86, either you get it or you don't.

Those engines are work horses, if you have the balls you can slide all of those cars around as well as any <9 lb/hp muscle car. There was a Matt Farah review of an FD-RX-7 with a single turbo build vs. a V8 swap and he boiled it down pretty well:

People like me say 'well it means you have to rev it out' but RX-7 people say 'no, it means you GET to rev it out' and they're two different schools

Don't get me wrong, I get it, there's no joy in banging off the revlimiter of a KA24E and stomping the gas at 1,800 rpm and lighting up the tires in a Mustang should put a smile on anybody's face. But hot damn, I'll cut down on the bull shit and tl;dr it: I'll take 'slow car fast' over 'fast car slow' every day of the week and twice on Sundays. There's lots of layers to that statement for me but nobody really reads these things anyway.

Bottom line? The vast majority of automotive 'journalism', even the absolute best, is done by people who are more talented at writing than driving (Harris, Clarkson, Mr. Regular), and the vast majority spend more time testing cars in traffic than on track.

Fortunately, journalism isn't the last word on the matter, like how Rolling Stone missed the mark on Led Zeppelin I, C&D missed the mark on the facelifted 86.

In their willingness to waste their considerable talent on unworthy material the Zeppelin has produced an album which is sadly reminiscent of [the Jeff Beck Group’s] Truth. Like the Beck group they are also perfectly willing to make themselves a two- (or, more accurately, one-a-half) man show. It would seem that, if they’re to help fill the void created by the demise of Cream, they will have to find a producer (and editor) and some material worthy of their collective attention.

But real talk here, everyone who likes classic rock should listen to Truth, everyone who likes fun cars should drive a high powered turbo 4 and/or a Mustang, and holy shit the new 86 has an oil temp gauge!?!?!?!?!

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Disagree...<excellent words> The article is crap.

Got us to read and talk about it. Pays the bills.

Originally Posted by Toyarzee

Just got to send off my +1 and actually thank you for this well written reply in addition to that fun thanks button.

Wait, what, DAEMANO gave you a thanks button? I want one.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A minority want more HP but since they speak up and the ones that are happy don't the perception is "everyone" wants it.

Can't get romantic on a subway liiiiine...

[Who8myrice]

What's up with people can't take another person's opinion.
Do you need someone's approval to enjoy what you have?.
I met lot of people who didn't like frs/brz, so what ?

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Who8myrice

What's up with people can't take another person's opinion.
Do you need someone's approval to enjoy what you have?.
I met lot of people who didn't like frs/brz, so what ?

Because you're supposed to be somewhat objective when you're a journalist. Just because you like cars with a million HP doesn't mean cars without that suck. It would be like writing a bad review of "The Martian" because you don't like SciFi films.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Because you're supposed to be somewhat objective when you're a journalist. Just because you like cars with a million HP doesn't mean cars without that suck. It would be like writing a bad review of "The Martian" because you don't like SciFi films.

It's an "opinion piece."

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

It's an "opinion piece."

Guess it was just a clerical error that got it filed under 'Review - Instrumented Test'

[kaputt]

The one thing I've never understood about the BRZ hatred is that the same people who rant on and on about the "underpowered" BRZ, usually rave on and on about the low powered Miata. They are both the exact same formula, and the BRZ actually does that formula one better by being slightly practical. And don't get me wrong, I love the Miata. My mom still owns her 91 and its a fantastic vehicle that has had great staying power.

My only guess is that people really hoped the BRZ would somehow be everything a Porsche is, luxurious interior and sound included, without the Porsche price tag. And since it wasn't that they grasp at things like low power and buzzy sounds to try and bring it down.

I will also second what was said earlier about those cross shopping this car. I don't own a BRZ yet. I'm very interested in the 2017, but I'm still shopping around. And the main cars I've cross shopped the BRZ with are the BMW 228i and VW GTI. Haven't even considered a muscle car.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Guess it was just a clerical error that got it filed under 'Review - Instrumented Test'

Meh, where's the test plan? List of instruments used? Raw data?

[extrashaky]

So Subaru didn't buy enough advertising in their magazine this cycle. Big deal.

I still enjoy driving my car.

[VTEC]

I don't know if it's fair to say Car and Driver is Fucking Stupid. Most of their articles have had glowing reviews on the BRZ. The first instrument test said it was adequately peppy. Then they bought one for a long term review and said the 0-60 time was respectable, and likely to be even faster after the break in period. The only complaints about the engine were the sound and mid range torque dip. And although a turbo was welcome C&D has always said the power and acceleration were adequate.

Except for this guy. So if anything maybe you can say Josh Jacquot is fucking stupid. I'm ok with that lol.

[OND]

I can't see any other vehicle below 30k that can do DD and track duty better than the twins. Mustang/Camaros are still boats compared to BRZ and they will run thru consumables much faster.

Also, I think getting 205hp out of a 2.0l NA engine at this price and meeting today's emissions standards is a huge accomplishment that nobody seems to appreciate. Even Honda had to drop the K20...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Zaku

this is an example of poor journalism and politics within the industry.

I am not sure about the politics, but at least he has an argument. They measured the new car and found a 0.1 sec difference in most tests. I assume that these measurements are real and they don't have a bias.


2017 Subaru BRZ manual
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.3 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 10.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 8.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.8 sec @ 95 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 134 mph


2013 Subaru BRZ manual
Zero to 60 mph: 6.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.4 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 8.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 14.7 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 10.0
Standing ¼-mile: 14.9 sec @ 95 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 139 mph



Only the rolling start and the top gear seems to be better mainly because of the shorter ratio and top speed is worse.


Sometimes, it is not only what people need or want. It is also about where industry is moving and how they are improving. At least it looks that for cost reasons, they couldn't provide something better.