My BRZ ST* Autocross build

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

and or credit/debit cards!
dam i hate those things

nope paid cash....These ones aren't mine..but Sam's....mine are on the way, Sam was just nice enough to snap a quick pic.....Mine should be here next week

Originally Posted by uspspro

Can you tell us how those feel on the street?

will do...as soon as I get them on..

[RiskyTrousers]

Really looking forward to your impressions of the V3s! I am waiting on the Clubsports but might change my mind depending on how long they take.

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by RiskyTrousers

Really looking forward to your impressions of the V3s! I am waiting on the Clubsports but might change my mind depending on how long they take.

I will make sure I give it... clubsports are awesome...but I feel they are such overkill for what I do... I know, I know...a 10th is a 10th.. once I get the car where I want it..I will strictly concentrate on driving..... not that I not concentrating on driving right now... but I am compensating WAY to much... seat time....seat time....seat time...

Bill

[Nazarite]

Scooby, loving this thread man. I love a great suspension set up, and I'm impressed with the amount of stuff you've tried/tweaked in just several weeks. Plus I'm enjoying the fact all the R&D will be done for me by the time I get around to modding a BRZ. Keep up the good work, and good luck this season.

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by zzyzx

Looks like I'm late to the party here, but more importantly it looks like you're in good hands with Strano.

So, to start with I think the KWs are a good solid choice, even if they're the only choice right now.

I'll outline what I would do in your shoes at this point in time:

Front camber: Between -2.5 and -3.2, starting at -2.7.
Rear camber: Between -1.2 and -2.3, starting at -1.75.

Front toe: Between 0 and 1/8 toe out, starting at 0.
Rear toe Between 0 and 1/4 toe in, starting at 1/8 toe in.

Front bar: This is an unknown, but obviously will depend on your front spring
rate. Strano is a "big bar" guy, so he's going to go that route. I'm a "no bar" guy, so I'd bump spring rates. I think 400F is low w/o a big bar. I would be more inclined to go 500F w/a marginally larger adjustable bar. I wouldn't rule out a front rate up to 600 w/a rear to match (balance wise).

Rear bar: Stock or none, but this again will depend on rear spring rate and the overall balance of the car. Given what I've read, one goal will be to stabilize the rear end. Given the 325R spring rate you're starting with, that'll help. Combine this with the toe and camber settings I've outlined and I think you'll be well on your way having a far more planted rear end.

Shock settings: Not being too familiar with the KWs, I can only recommend general guidance. Stay in the lower 1/3 of the range for bump (compression) adjustment both F&R. For rebound F, I'd start at 2/3 of full and F 1/2 of full stiff. I'm sure Strano can provide a lot more guidance here. For rear bump, you'll likely want to give it just enough from full soft to behave correctly - a lot of dampers don't work nicely at the extremes of their settings.

Regarding springs: I think the rates are on the low side of the equation, but not too low as to be non-competitive. The F/R split on rate is probably a larger spread than you'll end up with. Any rate splits between what you have now and equal could all work well, IMO.

The pictures of the KWs show tender springs that are not zero rate. A zero rate tender spring is a "helper spring". I'm a big fan of tender springs whose block load is just under the corner weight on the end of the car you want the most grip. In the Eibach ERS catalog, there are two 2.5" ID tender springs close to this criteria: 0175.250.0300 & 0225.250.0250. If I were you, I'd get the specs on the tenders provided with the coilovers to compare.

Ride height: Perhaps the most important topic of them all. Rake affects the balance a great deal. Be less concerned about ride height F/R and more concerned about the F/R split, or rake. I've spent entire T&Ts leaving all other parameters the same just to sort out rake, and it was always worth the effort. Since this is a MacStrut front, you can't really go wrong with setting the front ride height based on LCA angle - leaving the outer balljoint just a tad lower than the inner pivot point. And given this, set the rear ride height, not necessarily based on geometry, but height-wise in relation to the front. For the BRZ, my first inclination would be to start with a rear ride height marginally lower than the front. Only a good T&T session will tell for sure.

Other stuff: Since the BZW is on the "nose heavy" side of 50/50, I would most likely run the car with a full tank of gas. This will likely result in a more planted rear end, and won't be prone to the "slosh factor" of slinging a 1/2 of gas or more side to side through a slalom. For me how much gas in the tank boils down to whether the car in question can run w/o starve on "fumes" or not. If so, then fumes it is. If not, then the exact opposite.

I'll type more as it comes to me...

Steve...Thank you Very MUCH...In-valuable information...I will continue to mark the progress of this thing as time goes on...so everyone can keep tabs on it... as I(We) try to get the most out of the car...... some things ..cross over from AWD..some are way out in left field...The lessons that are learned today will be applied for future BRZ/FRS owners ...

Again...thanks so much for Insight...it is much appreciated..

Bill

[Scooby South]

OK minus another 20lbs... ..I understand the risks of a 'small' battery..and I can always bring the OE one with me to events...'just in case'..



FACTORY OEM Grp 35 Battery.. . 29.8 lbs..

[Scooby South]

Ship date: Jun 25, 2012

Estimated delivery: Jun 28, 2012

[Silverdub]

Whattttt V3s!!! Mine should be in friday! Are you going to corner weight the car?

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by Silverdub

Whattttt V3s!!! Mine should be in friday! Are you going to corner weight the car?

absolutely. going on thurs night...

[Sam Strano]

I guess it's time I show my face publicly.... Hi, my name is Sam Strano. I have a problem (well a few). I own an FR-S. I put too many miles on it (2400 or so thus far). I'm an autocrosser and run some track days too, and I'm pretty good at it and setting cars up for such things. I also sell parts. But don't worry, I only sell stuff I believe in and would use myself... which is why my car already sports suspension change, along with wheels and tires.. More stuff is coming too.

Let's address a few things. First, I am not a one-trick pony. I do like to use swaybars for roll stiffness, but not always, not at both ends, and sometimes I find stock bars will work fine. Second, I just got done running my FR-S this past weekend... with camber, with the KW's, with Hankook's, etc. I've said this before and I will say it again, and I'm sure it will offend someone even though it is not meant to, but I shoot straight and call things like I see them: Many owners of these cars are coming from other Subaru's complete with their AWD and even more nose-heavy balance. I come from a preference to RWD, limited slip equipped cars, and I have a lot of experience and success in such things. But I also know cars in general, and have setup a lot of cars that have National Championships other than the ones I own.

It is hard to argue when people say this isn't enough spring rate, that is too much... same with alignments, or shock valvings, or running swaybars, and how big...etc., etc. That's fine and variety makes the world go round.

I am not an engineer. However, I am not stupid, and I do no ignore engineering principals. In fact the woman I am dating (also a racer, and a very good one) holds an M.E. degree from Stanford... And I set her car up too. I work very much off of common sense and experience. That said, let's move on.

I carry a lot of parts, and have used a lot of dampers. Koni, KW, Ohlins, Penske, JRZ, Moton, AST, Eibach and on it goes. I get snickered at because while I feel shocks are super important, I don't just run the most expensive stuff. In fact I've more than once fixed the valving some super high end stuff, and while AST's and Koni 2812's and Penske 8300's are all out there for my Corvette, I run off the shelf Koni 3013's which many folks are convinced "can't win". Clearly that is not the case if you follow National level results. In fact, NOT ONE of my championships has been on super trick shocks even when running against cars with other multi-time champions with up to TRIPLE adjustable shocks.

I'm the same way with springs. I cannot believe how far overboard most go with spring rates. I cannot believe how far overboard that folks go with camber. I am not running -3 in my FR-S *or* my Corvette (which largely lives on a trailer and could have that if I wanted or needed it).

Here's where things get sticky. Typically I'm known for giving all my information out. I prefer that, but unfortunately it's become unwise for me to do so in a public forum to the degree of detail I'd like. That said I'm not a "blogger" anyway. If you want some help, that's fine and I'm not unwilling. Having said that, I do have a business to run. I learn the things I know by trying thing on my own stuff. That takes time (as does talking to customers and so on) and money. So I have to ask that you guys understand I make my living this way and nobody can live if they work for free all the time. All I ask is that you are looking for parts, please give me a shot. I'm trying to help support the cars and their owners, hopefully some of that comes back.

We are all going to be learning a bit here, I think I'm ahead of the curve based on previous experience and the fact I'm piling miles up like next week is the last time I could ever drive.

I think 400 is plenty. In fact I won ESP National Championships in my 3429 lb (w/o driver and I'm not tiny) Camaro with 500 and 600 fronts (and 150 rears)... and that car is a double a-arm front with a lot more motion ratio than a strut car. Further, let's talk about Mustangs which are strut cars. Most I've run, 800 pounds. Where did I end up? Between 300 and 400...again on a much heavier car (and still with less than -3 camber).

As an example of how I work, I took the time at the alignment shop to check and see how much toe change we get for each mark on the rear toe, that way if a quickly change is needed, I am not guessing on the change. Already folks have been led down the road of "parts that fit" vs. things that truly work like some rear bars that happen to bolt on but aren't right for the needs.

I have KW's on my car, I do not regret that choice. I use them on Mustangs I was familiar. I wish I had more choices last week, but now I'm quite pleased with the results. But I'm not running them as they were delivered or at the recommended starting settings either.

Sam Strano
Owner: Strano Performance Parts & 2013 FR-S
814-849-3450
www.stranoparts.com

[Scooby South]

thank you sir.....I, for one, look forward to our relationship both professionally and Personally.. I have looked up to you since I met you way back when in Peru. I look forward to this platform more than most people know..it is going to be hugely successful. I am proud to have you, Sam helping me pave the way with this. Anything I can do to help you...Let me know.. .. I follow pretty much the same philosophy that you do....

thanks again for chiming in..Sam

very respectfully

Bill

[Scooby South]

Sams FRS run in STX this past weekend

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pm12Sckx9I"]Strano FRS 1st Event - YouTube[/ame]

[feldy]

Nice seeing you here as well. Bill your thread will soon get all kinds of thread jacking

[Kido1986]

Sam is the man. I order all of my Z28's parts fro him and get a crap ton of advise from him. Just ordered more stuff for that tank this week and spent more time discussing the FT86 setup than my Camaro's.

This man's site is always my first spot when I need anything.

Look forward to learning more on these cars from you. Though Im going for CStock so I cant do quite a radical mod as you can haha