SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[MarkR171]

CS is a lot cheaper, lol. Staying in CS at least for next year myself.

[simpleisbest]

Also, did anyone notice that the 2nd place twin was a BRZ....

[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by ryan t

now that nationals is over an the ND proved to be much much faster than anything else, why should we stay in CS and not move to STX? i personally want to stay in CS, but looks as though we stand no chance.

You shouldn't stay in CS, you should take off the TRD parts and go to DS.

[klittl06]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

You shouldn't stay in CS, you should take off the TRD parts and go to DS.

Is that offical now?

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[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Also, did anyone notice that the 2nd place twin was a BRZ....

Brian Priebe is a very talented driver and is dynamite in the wet(which CS had on day 2) he made up a ton of positions on day 2. He's also been one of the most outspoken people about the TRD parts being relatively insignificant in terms of performance

[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by klittl06

Is that offical now?

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Nah, still technically out for member comments but there have been several updates to the street tire class reshuffling and the Twins haven't moved . I expect now that Nats is over with we will see those changes becoming official in the next month or so.

[ryan t]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

You shouldn't stay in CS, you should take off the TRD parts and go to DS.

thats other option if they do move us to DS. Im not on the bars just the springs. The DS nats winner is local to me so i would have a good way to see where im at.

[AlanLGuy]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

Nah, still technically out for member comments but there have been several updates to the street tire class reshuffling and the Twins haven't moved . I expect now that Nats is over with we will see those changes becoming official in the next month or so.

The only main argument against it right now is the fact that CS was the largest class in history and is pretty healthy, but by the same token, DS made ok numbers, but other than a lone mini, was all WRX's which isn't good for a class long term, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to shake it up

[Twinz]

I don't want to take anything away from the Miata drivers, but they didn't have someone who pulled away from their pack the way Dave did from the other twins. I think Dave made the gap between the twins and the Miata look closer than it actually is.

Now that the ND is "the car" I expect more talent to jump into them next year. An alien or two in the ND's might just create the kind of gap that gets stuff moved around, but right now the gap between the fastest twin and the fastest ND seems too small.

[Locust]

I posted this in the other thread so I will quote it here as well:

I had a semi-lengthy chat with Dave (Whitener?) about the CS/DS move and the future of the ND Miata in CS. It was a little disheartening to see that the ND Miata really is that much faster than a TRD FR-S and from the discussion I had with him it sounds like they're going to leave the Miata right there as a class killer and move the non TRD cars down to DS. I don't think the gap between the TRD and non-TRDs is anywhere near as large as people have been making it out to be though. The ND Miatas were matching/beating AS and BS times which is just crazy and even if I don't run against an ND locally I still run PAX and will have to play with their index. Next year is going to be tough sledding if you run a twin in CS it seems.

Now, I'm looking over the results and they're not pretty. They're not pretty at all. Our direct comparison (or at least the best we have) is the East course since everyone in AS, BS, CS, and DS got dry runs on the East (BTW AS, BS, and DS had a more rubbered in course and the same or better conditions). The West course we can't really draw anything but if you want to look at CSL and what % they are off of CS you can see that the times would have likely been very good.

So... East course (1st-5th places):
AS top times - 61.937, 62.464, 62.531, 62.639, 62.692.
BS top times - 63.004, 63.125, 63.364, 63.484, 63.517.
CS top times - 62.469, 62.622, 62.699, 63.024, 63.077 (Ogburn).
DS top times - 64.058, 64.388, 64.698, 64.709, 64.864.

And just so we're open about all the information...
"Non-David-Ogburn" FR-S/BRZ top times - 64.052, 64.069, 64.162, etc. etc. (first BRZ is 64.389 and second is 64.544). Keep in mind though that a lot of the fastest drivers are all in FR-S' since everyone bailed on the BRZ. Ogburn has shown now in back-to-back years that he's a full second ahead of the rest of the crowd in the FR-S.

A couple of things we can conclude here... The ND Miata would have been 1st-3rd in BS just on East Course times. And that's not even the course where they would have excelled the best since the West course was tighter. The ND Miata would have also been 5/1000ths out of 2nd place in AS on the East course. AS ran in heat 3 just 40 minutes after CS so the conditions were about as close to similar as they can get. That's a pretty damn strong showing.

The FR-S/BRZ would have been really strong, and probably taken several of the top spots, in DS. How strong would it be in non-TRD form? Tough to say but since most of the good CS drivers are running TRD the only comparison points are and Steven Berrodin and Brian Priebe.

[simpleisbest]

Might even want to consider EStreet times too, as they seem to be close but different days.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Might even want to consider EStreet times too, as they seem to be close but different days.

Discussion has centered around moving ND up or twins down so I didn't bother putting ES in here.

By the way because the ND has been classed for less than 12 calendar months they actually can move it without requiring any discussion/feedback from anyone. I doubt it'll happen though. I was basically told that they prefer "participation" and will move the large group of twins to keep their participation high and don't care about the 350Z, RX-8, or any other CS classed cars. I vehemently disagree with this method of class balancing as I think cars should be put where they are closest in competition, not where they can compete with themselves and dominate the handful of minority cars that are just "also rans".

[DaWorstPlaya]

I'm just going to cut and paste my response from the other thread.

I think The ND did very well on both courses due to gearing. The East course, which is usually the faster course, was geared well for the ND and didn't really require a shift to 3rd. I'm disappointed that the course this year wasn't as fast as last year's east course because that could've skewed the results, maybe?

I spoke with a few ND competitors and they said after the showcase turn, they were able to flat foot it into the slight right just as they hit the rev limiter and held it there without having to shift to 3rd.

I knew the West course was always going to favor the ND.

I'm with you. I don't think there is that big of a difference between the non-TRD and TRD twins. Does anyone think, if they move the non-TRD twins to DS, it will drive away all the WRXs, Minis and Cobalt in that class? Or more importantly how many twin drivers would jump ship to DS?

Actually the 2nd fastest twin after day 1 was my co-driver who was sitting in 9th with a time of 63.8.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

I'm just going to cut and paste my response from the other thread.



Actually the 2nd fastest twin after day 1 was my co-driver who was sitting in 9th with a time of 63.8.

Sorry, missed that.