Can steering feel, tactility, be improved? Without sacrificing adjustability?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Maybe if you install them yourself but if you have paid someone to install them and do an alignment then the GrimmSpeed bar is cheaper and made a bigger difference for me. Nice double post btw.

So you're saying a strut bar gave you better steering feedback and feel?

My own experience with a chromoly triangulated strut bar is that while u do get a little more feel it increases the car's propensity to understeer with all else equal. I believe this is the effect of stiffening up the front strut mounting that there is less 'give' in the chassis when the suspension is compressed with force of high g cornering. Although this car already has really really good ridgidity as is. The strut bar will make a bigger difference on a heavily sprung car with very sticky tires. It does not do much increasing steering feel, per se, in that it does nothing at all to stop the steering rack bushings from flexing during steering inputs.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by solidONE

So you're saying a strut bar gave you better steering feedback and feel?

Yes. Also, I did not notice in difference in steering. That is, no difference in under/oversteer.
For me the TiC alloy bushes were a waste of money. Maybe because the car had only 6k kilometers on it when the bushes were installed. Aftermarket coilovers and front lca bushes had already been fitted as well. The tower bar was the last mod I made to the chassis.

[Trettiosjuan]

Since starting this thread I perhaps never gave a proper summary, but the TiC steering rack bushings together with some toe and the Grimmspeed strut bar and both gave me some subtle but real improvements over stock even on "normal" tires. Perhaps subtle but then again any further increase in grip information is very valuable, especially if you drive new ground all the time driving cross country on small twisty roads.
Anyhow, happy with my setup now (TiC, GS strut bar, alignment, subframe inserts, superlight wheels)

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

So I never got a GT86. I settled with a "I surrender" car, a Focus which is 100% rational and still an exceptional good steer. For the class.

Change in work situation got me looking into a Cayman as my "ultimate tactile dream car I could live with". When testing the idea though the total absence of rear seats did bother me, so I ended up back here

If I get a GT86, I have accepted that I will want to modify it, in itself a dangerous alley to walk

Anyhow, I am trying to make up a list that would give me the most tactile car without ruining NVH or handling on (very) bumpy roads:
- Turn in Concept solid steering rack bushes http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...g+rack+bushing
- Motegi Traklite 16" wheels (as small and light as possible): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12452
- AD08 205/55R16 Ryres: Stiff sidewall, narrow and light for uncorrupted feedback
- Some strut brace of some sort
- Camber bolts for some negative camber in front to keep the AD08 happy.
- Otherwise, keep stock suspension, it should tighten up considerably just with the light wheel set-up
- Purely psychological: some better sounding exhaust and intake

Anybody actually gone a similar route, or has suggestions of other worthwile modifications? This time, I want to have a clear path for my modding and hopefully stick to it...

Thanks!

When I drove a Focus ST in Australia it felt quite artificial due to all the computer intervention and it braking the inside front to get it to turn in.

Was a nice car smooth quite good power handled well, but felt like the computer was driving it not you .

Quite happy with BRZ after getting decent tyres and a 16mm rear bar to get rid of the initial understeer & front brace and camber bolts.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by steve99

Quite happy with BRZ after getting decent tyres and a 16mm rear bar to get rid of the initial understeer & front brace and camber bolts.

I had a 1.0 ecoboost, very light on the front, wonderful engine, very sweet steer really for a fwd family hatch, I really surprised some passengers with what it could do on the right road. Ford chassis engineers have my salute.

PS: while not strictly steering feel related, also have the 16mm and camber bolts, really makes the car balanced on steering input only

[revaholic]

Apologies for reviving an old topic, but I was wondering about everyone's opinion on steering feel.

I have a '16 FRS, and I previously drove a lowly 2001 Civic and have also been in a 2010 Cooper S.

While I love the directness and immediate response of the FRS steering, I can't help but feel that it is a bit...numb. In my Civic the steering would sort of wobble around a bit on railway crossings, small ruts in pavement, and I quite liked this feeling of connection. The Cooper S would do the same, at parking speeds even the steering will jiggle around depending on the surface. I feel like in the Mini, I could 'read' the texture of the pavement quite well too. I think at higher speeds the FRS's steering instills the most confidence, but after reading so much about journalists loving the steering feel of the FRS, I am slightly let down by what I am (not) experiencing. Am I being realistic for wanting the steering to shimmy in your hands more?

[Sarlacc]

Originally Posted by revaholic

Apologies for reviving an old topic, but I was wondering about everyone's opinion on steering feel.

I have a '16 FRS, and I previously drove a lowly 2001 Civic and have also been in a 2010 Cooper S.

While I love the directness and immediate response of the FRS steering, I can't help but feel that it is a bit...numb. In my Civic the steering would sort of wobble around a bit on railway crossings, small ruts in pavement, and I quite liked this feeling of connection. The Cooper S would do the same, at parking speeds even the steering will jiggle around depending on the surface. I feel like in the Mini, I could 'read' the texture of the pavement quite well too. I think at higher speeds the FRS's steering instills the most confidence, but after reading so much about journalists loving the steering feel of the FRS, I am slightly let down by what I am (not) experiencing. Am I being realistic for wanting the steering to shimmy in your hands more?

There's nothing wrong with a good old resurrection!

Ideally, I'd like a little more tactile feedback from the road in my '13 GT86 too.
It would sacrifice some stability around corners on uneven surfaces at high speed, though.
Vibrations, jiggles and shimmying would mean loss of traction and oversteer.
I think there will have to be some trade-off to be made, and I believe they got it just right.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by revaholic

Apologies for reviving an old topic, but I was wondering about everyone's opinion on steering feel.

I think you're describing bump steer which, as Sarlacc said, is generally considered undesirable.

Also, I just realized that both cars you mentioned are FWD which all exhibit another phenomenon called torque steer. Are you maybe just experiencing the joy of separating the steering wheel from the gas pedal?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by revaholic

Apologies for reviving an old topic, but I was wondering about everyone's opinion on steering feel.

I have a '16 FRS, and I previously drove a lowly 2001 Civic and have also been in a 2010 Cooper S.

While I love the directness and immediate response of the FRS steering, I can't help but feel that it is a bit...numb. In my Civic the steering would sort of wobble around a bit on railway crossings, small ruts in pavement, and I quite liked this feeling of connection. The Cooper S would do the same, at parking speeds even the steering will jiggle around depending on the surface. I feel like in the Mini, I could 'read' the texture of the pavement quite well too. I think at higher speeds the FRS's steering instills the most confidence, but after reading so much about journalists loving the steering feel of the FRS, I am slightly let down by what I am (not) experiencing. Am I being realistic for wanting the steering to shimmy in your hands more?

All the cars you mentioned are FWD and since the wheels are also providing the power you can get away with a bit more road feel. With the RWD you want to keep those front wheels well planted and not fighting the rear. Anybody that has ever had an old rack and pinion steering wheel ripped out of their hand by a groove in the road and the rear wheels take off in a random direction will know what I mean.

[Mim]

I've read a few posts mentioning the addition of a strut brace. I fitted the flexible STI strut brace and though I sadly have no experience with other brands, the STI one really settled the ride down and provided a firmer and altogether sharper feel. Being flexible the design apparently allows some movement in areas where some flex is not a bad idea and counters movement in the directions need to be. This apparently results in a more supple ride and helps with communication. I further braced the doors via the TRD door stabilisers, which seems to help the car corner in a sharper and more confident manner. Note I'm still on stock wheels, tires and suspension otherwise.

I'm actually really enjoying the stock tires, but am thinking of lighter wheels down the line to help improve feedback, as also spoken about in this thread.

[nikitopo]

You can try also to change the bolts in the steering linkage with larger ones. Personally, I'll do the change this week with the normal service. They are saying that it gives you a better steering feel.

New bolts are the following:


Old bolds are located here:


Replacement bolds are installed here:

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I think you're describing bump steer which, as Sarlacc said, is generally considered undesirable.

What he described is "steering kickback" which is a "feel" thing and its desirability is a personal preference thing. My Elise with no power steering had a lot of kickback.

Bumpsteer is undesirable because the car changes direction with no steering wheel movement so you can't feel it. It occurs because the steering linkage is not correct such that when the wheel goes over a bump, the linkage causes the wheel to steer without any input from the steering wheel.

You can increase steering feel by replacing bushings in the linkage with stiffer bits.

I've also found that a stiffer strut brace and the Perrin steering rack lockdowns give more feedback in the steering wheel.

[shattered_memory]

I am currently on Tein Flex Z and Advan AD08 Tires. Steering feels mostly sharp with good feel. When it is really hot out (100 degrees +) I notice the steering feels lighter and more numb. I know increase in tire pressure can cause a lighter steering feel,but it is kinda strange that the steering gets a little numb in the heat. I am attributing this to the rubber bushings in the front suspension that probably turn to marshmallows in high heat. I have since bought energy suspension Poly front LCA bushings and steering rack bushings. I am going to get these installed at the end of the month and let you all know how it feels.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

What he described is "steering kickback" which is a "feel" thing and its desirability is a personal preference thing. My Elise with no power steering had a lot of kickback.

Bumpsteer is undesirable because the car changes direction with no steering wheel movement so you can't feel it. It occurs because the steering linkage is not correct such that when the wheel goes over a bump, the linkage causes the wheel to steer without any input from the steering wheel.

You can increase steering feel by replacing bushings in the linkage with stiffer bits.

I've also found that a stiffer strut brace and the Perrin steering rack lockdowns give more feedback in the steering wheel.

Yeah, I've made this mistake in the past. I don't remember the correct term for the effect of too much scrub radius. Maybe it's also torque steer. Where, for instance in uneven braking, the wheel just yanks hard over.

edit: oops I missed the whole point. "Kickback" Ok, I can go with that.