Two schools of thoughts Miata and 86

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I think I interpreted the Op's question a little differently.


Why does it seem the car enthusiast community in general, sneers at the twins due to the under powered perception while the Miata has a near reverent status as a small light sports car?

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

There have been over a million Miatas sold across the various generations. That's one long ass line of Miata apologists

And there is a massive difference between the target demographics and market for the two cars.


Ya, on here it seems like the Miata may be "near reverent" but go to any meet with the Vtec/Evo/STi/TSI crowd and see what they think of a Miata! That same crowd however seems to think the Twins should be one of them.

[driftartist]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

The 86 is slow. The Miata (ND) is quicker. They're both good cars. The 86 has a fixed roof and a "back seat" with a transmission that doesn't blow up.

if the ND is actually quicker due to power to weight ratio, it wouldnt be by much because the ND has 160 crank hp from their 2.0 and we have 173 approx wheel hp...so im not sure what you mean. maybe in agility you mean or on a twisty road?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by driftartist

if the ND is actually quicker due to power to weight ratio, it wouldnt be by much because the ND has 160 crank hp from their 2.0 and we have 173 approx wheel hp...so im not sure what you mean. maybe in agility you mean or on a twisty road?

It's not quicker by much, but the ND is quicker in a straight line IIRC.

[FX86]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLtw2z_mZ6w"]2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata Club vs. 2015 Subaru BRZ - Head 2 Head Ep. 68 - YouTube[/ame]

[AdrianSaldana]

Originally Posted by FX86

those numbers are like the engineers measuring which car has the longest dip stick

totally irrelevant to the streets

short throw dipstick fam

[totopo]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I think I interpreted the Op's question a little differently.


Why does it seem the car enthusiast community in general, sneers at the twins due to the under powered perception while the Miata has a near reverent status as a small light sports car?

I think it's because of expectations. The miata has been around for so long that everyone knows what it is and accepts that it is light, nimble, and fun but slow. The ND is such a hit because it nails all of those and it is better and faster than the previous generation.

The twins had some weird expectations of the next coming of Jesus for some reason, so when it came out people expected it to be like a GT4 or something. Also I think the styling and marketing makes people compare it to other sporty coupes, all of which are significantly faster, whereas the miata is kind of in a unique niche.

Even on this forum, people don't like accepting that the twins aren't that fast. For some reason a lot of people on this forum aren't content with having a fun car and wants it to be faster than other cars for some reason. The miata people don't seem have this hang up.

like this next comment:

Originally Posted by JFunk

This car handles like a dream fun to see the big and fast v8s slow down for turns when i just ease through them

The twins are probably easier for novice drivers to drive faster in corners, but the big tire v8's will objectively turn faster than the twins on a single corner. So the fact that the v8's are slowing down and you are not mostly means that you are a combination of more confident/reckless than they are.

[FX86]

Originally Posted by AdrianSaldana

short throw dipstick fam

i heard they got the new sequential multistage dipstick

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by mdm

I understand now how this forum got to 2.5 million posts. People just keep saying/discussing the same few things over and over again

About a hundred thousand posts are just people observing that fact.

[humfrz]

Welp, my conclusion is .....that ......if you want a roadster, but a Miata; if you want a coupe, buy a FR-S/BRZ.


humfrz

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

It's not quicker by much, but the ND is quicker in a straight line IIRC.

Yeah the ND's weight and torque advantage give it a ~1/2 second lead 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

Looking closer at the numbers though, what I found surprising is that the HP and aero of the FR-S give it a significant advantage above 60 mph.

60-100 mph:
- FR-S: 10.2 s
- ND Miata: 11.5 s

60-120 mph
- FR-S: 20.0 s
- ND Miata: 23.7 s

That would explain why the FR-S/BRZ is faster at a track like VIR which has a couple of long straights and high speed turns.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by totopo

I think it's because of expectations. The miata has been around for so long that everyone knows what it is and accepts that it is light, nimble, and fun but slow. The ND is such a hit because it nails all of those and it is better and faster than the previous generation.

The twins had some weird expectations of the next coming of Jesus for some reason, so when it came out people expected it to be like a GT4 or something. Also I think the styling and marketing makes people compare it to other sporty coupes, all of which are significantly faster, whereas the miata is kind of in a unique niche.

Even on this forum, people don't like accepting that the twins aren't that fast. For some reason a lot of people on this forum aren't content with having a fun car and wants it to be faster than other cars for some reason. The miata people don't seem have this hang up.

like this next comment:



The twins are probably easier for novice drivers to drive faster in corners, but the big tire v8's will objectively turn faster than the twins on a single corner. So the fact that the v8's are slowing down and you are not mostly means that you are a combination of more confident/reckless than they are.

That's the problem with general perception of the public thinking the Twins was the next GTR killer or Supra without really looking behind the history of the AE86 nor even the classic RWD Toyota coupes of Celica's.

Besides Miata have over 26 years of building its credentials vs the Twins barely in the 4th year. But I accept the fact it's not going to be a lap burning, torque off the line killer that some of you want it to be but I'm darn happy as hell I'm daily driving this bad boy and can still have fun with a trunk to spare something Miata doesn't have lol.

We just need to stop :/$:$ about lack of power this and that no mid range torque enjoy the car for what it is accepting what it can and can't do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

That would explain why the FR-S/BRZ is faster at a track like VIR which has a couple of long straights and high speed turns.

It is? I must have missed that article.

[funwheeldrive]

I don't think anyone was expecting this car to be a 25k Cayman. They were probably thinking it would be faster than a stock Civic Si though. Isn't the TC faster than the frs these days?

People also think these cars are overpriced. I think a lot of people were originally hoping for a 20-22k base price, which is silly.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah the ND's weight and torque advantage give it a ~1/2 second lead 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

Looking closer at the numbers though, what I found surprising is that the HP and aero of the FR-S give it a significant advantage above 60 mph.



That would explain why the FR-S/BRZ is faster at a track like VIR which has a couple of long straights and high speed turns.

Don't forget gearing. The MX5 has very short gearing to help it get going. 6th gear is 1.0 in the MX5.