Winter Driving experiences. .

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Mattstermh

I'm in Boston - is the salt really that bad around these parts for our cars?

Yes. Anywhere salt is used is hell on cars.

[MuseChaser]

Yes, salt is awful for cars. Period.

I'd like to join Ultramaroon and Cole in disagreeing with the poster who seemed to think that RWD isn't an appropriate drive system for winter driving. What total crap. You have MORE control with a RWD vehicle over a FWD vehicle, by a long shot. If you don't have any experience driving RWD on icy or snowy roads, it may be a little weird feeling at first, but once you learn how to do it, you have a much greater chance to correct a bad situation than you do w/ a FWD car.

In a FWD car, the engine is over the drive wheels... good for traction. However, if you lose traction, you've lost drive AND steering. In a front engined RWD car, if you lose traction, you've lost traction, but you can still steer (assuming, of course, you don't panic and stomp on the brakes.. never do that). Once you get the hang of steering into skids and backing off the gas a bit, you'll find that RWD is, at least in my decades of driving, a MUCH more predictable and controllable system for winter driving than FWD. I live near Syracuse, NY.. we get a ton of snow. I bought the FR-S SPECIFICALLY because it was one of the few remaining RWD/manual cars still made, and I wanted that drivetrain for winter use. YES, you UNEQUIVOCALLY need to mount snow tires on your car. There is no discussion there. Once you have them on (and go to a very large snowy parking lot and do some fun practicing if you're not experienced w/ RWD), you'll love driving it in the winter.

Enjoy!

Barry

[dnieves]

With all this snow driving make sure you address rust proofing as salt will destroy any car.

[Aloof The Icon]

That was actually my next question, what do you guys recommend for protection against Salt and rust issues?




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[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Aloof The Icon

That was actually my next question, what do you guys recommend for protection against Salt and rust issues?




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Well now, I reckon that a lot depends on where on "Earth" are you going to be driving your car (maybe I missed where you live).....??

For example, here in Western Washington, I don't feel any additional rust protection is necessary, because we don't usually get that much snow and the highway departments don't use salt (not in it's conventional form).

Other parts of the US will differ.


So, what winter environment will your car be subjected to ... ??


humfrz

[Aloof The Icon]

Metro Detroit Winters. Pot holes are as common as birds and salt in the winter is carried out heavily lol.

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[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Aloof The Icon

Metro Detroit Winters. Pot holes are as common as birds and salt in the winter is carried out heavily lol.

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hmmmm...........the salt belt .. huh ......

OK, you Midwesterners / Easterners, what would you recommend for additional rust protection ...... if anything ... ??


humfrz

[mdm]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

In a FWD car, the engine is over the drive wheels... good for traction. However, if you lose traction, you've lost drive AND steering.

Some people say that in case of loss of control FWD is easier to save by an inexperienced driver, i.e. that instictive reactions of an inexperienced person lead to better outcomes in an FWD... I am not sure if this is entirely true... I mean FWD is more prone to power-understeer, and instinctive braking may shift weight to the front wheels and restore traction. Not sure though if it is any true IRL.


What I believe is true is that the result of applying to much power in a turn is generally safer in FWD than in RWD - you exit the road front end first as opposed to sideways. It's better to hit a pole or a tree with the front bumper than with passenger or driver door.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by Aloof The Icon

That was actually my next question, what do you guys recommend for protection against Salt and rust issues?




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Lack of concern and a new car every ten years.

They should hold up fine for the fist five years assuming that you do an oil-spray in the fall. Then you will get a gradual decline with a bit of rust perforation popping up here and there over the next five.
By year ten, its pretty much a beater.

I have a theory that washing cars in the winter makes them rust faster. So I don't.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Lack of concern and a new car every ten years.

They should hold up fine for the fist five years assuming that you do an oil-spray in the fall. Then you will get a gradual decline with a bit of rust perforation popping up here and there over the next five.
By year ten, its pretty much a beater.

I have a theory that washing cars in the winter makes them rust faster. So I don't.

I hate to say it, but that's been pretty much my experience. My Mercedes and BMW vehicles have FAR outlasted my Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Land Rover vehicles, and most of that was because they seemed to be more impervious to rust. Hand washing my vehicles in below 0F weather was never something I was willing to do. Some I took to drive through car washes; those bodies may have lasted longer, but the frames seemed to fare worse. Others I didn't wash at all.. the bodies showed rust earlier, but the undercarriage seemed to fare better. My theory is that the high pressure streams actually forced the salt deeper into crevices.. who knows.

You really can't protect a car from salt completely. "Rust-proofing" coatings, at least in my experience, are pretty redundant when applied to a brand new car. When applied to a car that's already had a season of salt, they just trap any beginning corrosion inside the coating so you can't see it happening. Rust-preventing electronic systems are total crap on cars. There's far too many rubber and/or poly components to a car that, as a byproduct, electrically isolate parts of the car from each other that you'd need to run a SNOTLOAD of wires to make sure that every single piece of metal on the car had a path to ground before those systems would work. Of course, this is the internet. You can find a huge amount of testimony to the fact that those systems work great, too. Personally, I'll listen to the engineers before I'll listen to the salesmen or those trying to validate their purchases.

So, yeah... If you really care, get a $1500 winter rat and keep your car out of salt. OR.. accept the fact that your car will get eaten in 10 years or so, and live with it. I've gone both routes. These days, I'm happier maintaining fewer cars and just accepting the salt damage.

BArry

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by mdm

Some people say that in case of loss of control FWD is easier to save by an inexperienced driver, i.e. that instictive reactions of an inexperienced person lead to better outcomes in an FWD... I am not sure if this is entirely true... I mean FWD is more prone to power-understeer, and instinctive braking may shift weight to the front wheels and restore traction. Not sure though if it is any true IRL.


What I believe is true is that the result of applying to much power in a turn is generally safer in FWD than in RWD - you exit the road front end first as opposed to sideways. It's better to hit a pole or a tree with the front bumper than with passenger or driver door.

All of that is true. In the hands of an experienced driver, however, you exit the road much less in a RWD car.. A FWD will get you moving from a stop easier, no matter who you are. After that, an experienced driver in a RWD has a lot more control and is safer than an experienced or inexperienced driver in a FWD. To be honest, I personally feel/felt more secure in my FR-S/325i than I do/did in my wife's AWD ML500/430; when the vehicle slides, the RWD cars do EXACTLY what I tell them to do. The AWD is a little less predictable. The best of all worlds was my '93 Range Rover LWB, but only because it almost never got even a little out of control. My wife did manage to spin it on ice once.

[Tcoat]

Does salt affect the cars? Yes, but this is not a 1985 Kcar and will not be rotted out to the door handles in 3 years. Mine has seen two very salty Ontario winters and other than untreated bolt heads and fittings underneath my car is rust free. Even a huge gouge on my front fender has just developed a slight haze of surface rust after two winters. Modern cars stand up to salt way better than most from the past. Contrary to popular belief salt on it's own does not cause rust. Salt and moisture combined does. For most of the winter (here) it is cold enough that there is no free moisture for the salt to draw in so it isn't a problem. When it warms up and there is moisture then just run the car through a touchless wash with a under carriage spray every week or so and all is good. As already said though what will take a shit kicking is your front bumper. This could be avoided though if you stay well back from and never pass salt trucks. That stuff hits you like it was fired from a cannon. A clear bra would take care of some of that.

As far as this whole "RWD sucks in the snow" thing goes keep in mind that all cars for about 70 years were RWD and people didn't park them in the winter.
*Sorry to the regulars here but:
Your Mother drove RWD
Your Grandmother drove RWD
Your Great Grandmother drove RWD
and if young enough
Your Great Great Grandmother drove RWD
They all lived long enough that you are here now so....

*Sorry again guys:

1.7 inch drop, inexpensive (f'ing cheap) snow tires, driven 4,500 miles a month year round.

[Aloof The Icon]

Awesome feedback guys.

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[wireman957]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Just wait a few more days - a massive long-term high currently centered over the plains is going to drive a week-long heat wave over much of N. America.

Yep. It's here in North Texas. Still 90 degrees at 11:00 PM. Disgusting, but not (unfortunately) unusual for this time of year. I miss the 68 degree Oregon summer nights I used to know before moving to Texas in '97. Thank God (or maybe Amazon) for misters and outdoor-rated fans.