A conversation with a Toyota service manager about modding and warranties

[Impureclient]

Is it possible to just remove the ECU, put a used one in and flash that one and then if the situation arrives there, put the original unflashed one back in?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

Is it possible to just remove the ECU, put a used one in and flash that one and then if the situation arrives there, put the original unflashed one back in?

yes if you want to go to that much trouble.

They might be talking BS about the flash counter, i cannot find it in techstream software toyota uses.

ecu replacement see here

Replacing a Bricked ECU with new or used ECU (engine control Module)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102810


.

[86geek]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

Depends on dealer...SOME will try to deny you even for exhaust while others will be more welcoming and provide more lenient customer service.

Here in Honolulu, Hawaii the dealership Servco Hawaii owns TOYOTA period. They have their own agreement with TOYOTA of Japan. It's like their own entity from TOYOTA Japan. Servco Hawaii is not part of TOYOTA USA.

The Servco Hawaii service center I go to the service rep told me about the Mossman warranty thingy. He said they would have to prove the aftermarket part caused issues/failures with the car. When I was interested in TRD exhaust he said, "$1300.00 for TRD exhaust is a waste because you can buy a better after market one!" He told me I wouldn't violate my new car warranty and extended warranty with a aftermarket exhaust. As long as the stock header is not switched out the warranties would be fine.

[Packofcrows]

Originally Posted by 86geek

Here in Honolulu, Hawaii the dealership Servco Hawaii owns TOYOTA period. They have their own agreement with TOYOTA of Japan. It's like their own entity from TOYOTA Japan. Servco Hawaii is not part of TOYOTA USA.

The Servco Hawaii service center I go to the service rep told me about the Mossman warranty thingy. He said they would have to prove the aftermarket part caused issues/failures with the car. When I was interested in TRD exhaust he said, "$1300.00 for TRD exhaust is a waste because you can buy a better after market one!" He told me I wouldn't violate my new car warranty and extended warranty with a aftermarket exhaust. As long as the stock header is not switched out the warranties would be fine.

yep! I love mine but understand the exhaust is not the best. Still braggin' rights haha

[guybo]

Originally Posted by 86geek

As long as the stock header is not switched out the warranties would be fine.

I asked specifically about the header and the service mgr said it's not a problem. Of course, he also said if there's a warranty issue that the stock header can be switched out pretty easily....

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So he's recommending that you commit fraud? Reinstalling OEM parts and pretending they were always there for the purpose of convincing Toyota to pay for warranty work is fraud.

Them asking you to reinstall all OEM parts is not fraud (especially considering it is a Toyota EMPLOYEE telling you to do it) they need to have the car in OEM condition for their diagnostics to work.
Even if they know that you had aftermarket parts on the car they need it back in original condition to diagnose it properly.

Originally Posted by billwot

Nope! Please note that itemized list does NOT mention sensors, or any other I/O devices associated with engine management. "Powertrain" refers to the system of mechanical components

Yes the sensors that control the engine ARE covered under the powertrain warranty. If it makes it go, it is powertrain. The ECU is covered, therefore the sensors that feed the ECU are covered. I believe there is an exception for O2 sensors in the extended warranty, but not sure (they are certain to wear out before 100,000 and depends on the quality of your gasoline)

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Them asking you to reinstall all OEM parts is not fraud (especially considering it is a Toyota EMPLOYEE telling you to do it)

Yes it is. The Toyota dealer and Toyota USA are two separate entities. Warranty repairs are paid for by Toyota USA on the dealer's recommendation. So the dealer is saying they'll conceal the potentially warranty-voiding mods and misrepresent the issue in order to get money out of Toyota USA. Which is the textbook legal definition of fraud.

[Lantana frs]

My first motor expired at 20k. Rocker arm. Dealer saw perrin crank pulley and told me to bring stock pulley in. For some reason Toyota instructed mechanic to inspect main bearings. New shortblock was the result. That lasted 500 miles. Cam gear issues. Finally got a complete motor, ecu, all new plumbing etc.No problems since. Im rather grateful. It could've been worse.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Yes it is. The Toyota dealer and Toyota USA are two separate entities. Warranty repairs are paid for by Toyota USA on the dealer's recommendation. So the dealer is saying they'll conceal the potentially warranty-voiding mods and misrepresent the issue in order to get money out of Toyota USA. Which is the textbook legal definition of fraud.

Except I saw a Toyota tech post on this forum that they require the system to be returned to OEM for diagnostics. If they are concealing that fact from Toyota corporate, then it is NOT fraud on the part of the consumer, but on the part of the DEALER.


Its the same as a Police officer telling you to make a U-turn when no U-turn is allowed. Did you break the law or not?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Except I saw a Toyota tech post on this forum that they require the system to be returned to OEM for diagnostics. If they are concealing that fact from Toyota corporate, then it is NOT fraud on the part of the consumer, but on the part of the DEALER.

Its the same as a Police officer telling you to make a U-turn when no U-turn is allowed. Did you break the law or not?

It's still fraud that you are helping commit. And yes, it is still breaking the law, because it's not allowed there. Just because the police officer says he won't ticket you for it doesn't make it legal. I can't decide if you're living up to your name or if you genuinely can't grasp this principle.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

It's still fraud that you are helping commit. And yes, it is still breaking the law, because it's not allowed there. Just because the police officer says he won't ticket you for it doesn't make it legal. I can't decide if you're living up to your name or if you genuinely can't grasp this principle.

I believe YOU are wrong.

If the authority (the Dealer tech representative) tells you:
"Put your stock parts back on and bring it in"

If you follow his instruction you are NOT committing fraud.
You are following instructions.
You have NO IDEA what he intends to do with corporate.

Using your logic, if I make a bank deposit, and the teller steals that money and buys illegal drugs, I assisted with the law breaking? NOT

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by justatroll

I believe YOU are wrong.

If the authority (the Dealer tech representative) tells you:
"Put your stock parts back on and bring it in"

If you follow his instruction you are NOT committing fraud.
You are following instructions.
You have NO IDEA what he intends to do with corporate.

Using your logic, if I make a bank deposit, and the teller steals that money and buys illegal drugs, I assisted with the law breaking? NOT

Your example makes no sense and doesn't relate at all. And when the dealer says "put the OEM part back on so we can get it warrantied," you know exactly what they're doing. Sure, it's the dealer committing fraud against the corporate office, but you are knowingly assisting in that by swapping the parts for the purpose of getting a repair covered under warranty. It's very apparent that I'm speaking in a vacuum though, so you keep believing whatever you choose to believe. I'm tired of explaining why you're wrong.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Your example makes no sense and doesn't relate at all. And when the dealer says "put the OEM part back on so we can get it warrantied," you know exactly what they're doing. Sure, it's the dealer committing fraud against the corporate office, but you are knowingly assisting in that by swapping the parts for the purpose of getting a repair covered under warranty. It's very apparent that I'm speaking in a vacuum though, so you keep believing whatever you choose to believe. I'm tired of explaining why you're wrong.

I will try to keep this simple enough for you to understand:


If the dealer says:
"Put your OEM parts back on and bring the car in so I can run standard Toyota diagnostics on your problem"
(Which I have personally SEEN a tech tell a customer)
You are NOT committing fraud. Period.
If the dealer says:
"Put your OEM parts back on and bring the car in and I wont tell corporate, wink wink, nudge nudge"
You are assisting in the dealer committing fraud.


"Your example makes no sense and doesn't relate at all."


And the example definitely DID relate.
If I give someone cash for one thing and they use it for another (illegal) thing, did I help commit the crime or not? NO
Because they did not use the cash for what it was intended for.
SAME with the car example. If I put the parts back on to assist with the diagnostics (what I was told) and the DEALER uses it for something else (say to pass an inspection from corporate) then my actions are NOT assisting in fraud.

[saj]

Seriously guys? Fraud? Toyota manufactures the car, and the dealer sells and maintains it thereafter. If a dealer is telling you to put oem parts on/reflash and bring it in so they can work on it, why are you complaining? If you feel guilty about "lying" to a corporation, you've got bigger problems.