Custom Tuning

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by DGM-BRZ

When I drive, I have trouble accelerating, I change it to manual mode and see it on 6th gear and im like wtf?

Try starting out in manual mode. Pay special attention to how your car reacts after each shift. 1 - 3 usually pull pretty well, 4th sometimes, but it always bogs in 5th and 6th. The only way to keep 5th from bogging is to rev 4th gear up to about 90, then shift to 5th. I'm currently running a surprisingly smooth tune, based on @shr133 's AVCS tables with mods to smooth transitions and one strip from shiv's AVCS tables, rescaled at the end, for dyno-tuned WOT ability. See pics below for some highlights of the current tune.

[nikitopo]

If you want to throw away your car in a maximum period of 5 years, then do whatever you want. If not then don't mess up with the ECU or it should be the last thing you should do. As already mentioned this is not an easy engine (with eight injectors) and you need a very respectable tuner who knows what he is doing. In fact when you mess up with the ECU, you throw thousands of testing hours from the factory regarding performance, reliability and engine longevity.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

If you want to throw away your car in a maximum period of 5 years, then do whatever you want. If not then don't mess up with the ECU or it should be the last thing you should do. As already mentioned this is not an easy engine (with eight injectors) and you need a very respectable tuner who knows what he is doing. In fact when you mess up with the ECU, you throw thousands of testing hours from the factory regarding performance, reliability and engine longevity.

plenty of people been running tunes cars for years with out blowing up your satement seems flawed

when you alter tables in stock ecu to optimise for headers or other minor mods, the actual software code(program) is unchanged and the standard saftey features in the ecu programming are retained

in most cases a good aftermarket tune on an NA car is better for the engine than the stock tune, and results in far less knock and more consistent afr.

however most people that get tunes often drive their cars far harder and often track autocross etc which places far more stress on vehicle than the average road driver. this can lead to the perception that tuned cars are more prone to failure

below link is stock tune on 95 RON fuel about your 91 , id prefer to get my car tuned if i only had access to that fuel like in california or south africa.

stock tune is same for all countries


http://datazap.me/u/steve99/south-af...ata=2-20-27-28



.

[nikitopo]

Hey Steve. Thanks for the feedback. If you fine tune the maps for a lower quality fuel, then yes I agree that it is better and you can also have less knock and more consistent afr. Of course, even this should be done by a respectable tuner and not as mentioned by the user with some buddy doing a street tuning.

The reason I made my comment is because I'm seeing tuners not doing just that. They are trying to get most of the juice of this engine without serious knowledge of the engine's reliability and longevity. For example, one gets a tune for a header and he gets a gain of 20 or even 30 whp. This is non-sense. A plain ECU re-adjustment just for the header and a full exhaust cannot give more than 10-15 whp. Getting the most from an engine is also fine for many owners, but it should be clear that there might also exist consequences ...

[steve99]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Hey Steve. Thanks for the feedback. If you fine tune the maps for a lower quality fuel, then yes I agree that it is better and you can also have less knock and more consistent afr. Of course, even this should be done by a respectable tuner and not as mentioned by the user with some buddy doing a street tuning.

The reason I made my comment is because I'm seeing tuners not doing just that. They are trying to get most of the juice of this engine without serious knowledge of the engine's reliability and longevity. For example, one gets a tune for a header and he gets a gain of 20 or even 30 whp. This is non-sense. A plain ECU re-adjustment just for the header and a full exhaust cannot give more than 10-15 whp. Getting the most from an engine is also fine for many owners, but it should be clear that there might also exist consequences ...

yes, the reason a tuner can extract maybe 20 hp extra on 93 petrol with tune and header is because aftermarket catless header flow much better than stock catted header, also aftermarket tuner can just tune for best power and torque he\she does not have to comply with emmision standard or worry about the raspy noise arround 4000 rpm you get when tuning out torque dip. OEM tune has to comply with the strict emmission and noise standards and stock exhaust has to comply with strict emmission and exhaust standard in strictest country as exhaust and tune same everywhere. Also stock tune must run with worst fuel expected in any country like California 91 or south africa 95 ron.

Aftftermarket tuner does not have magic, they just dont have all the restrictions holding them back like oem engineer does, they also have cost and time restriction must produce car for price and on time.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by steve99

Also stock tune must run with worst fuel expected in any country like California 91 or south africa 95 ron.

I think we are saying the same thing. Factory puts greater safety limits to protect the engine. If you change these limits and one day you don't get the best quality fuel from a random gas station, then you might have kaboom. The usage of an E85 fuel and of a flexible fuel kit is a good solution, but then you don't get always the same power and not all the tuners have this option.

Originally Posted by steve99

Aftftermarket tuner does not have magic, they just dont have all the restrictions holding them back like oem engineer does, they also have cost and time restriction must produce car for price and on time.

I don't fully agree. The factory standards are usually much higher comparing to aftermarket products. The reason is that the factory has a multiple years warranty and they have to compensate in a failure. I have seen very few headers that might have a quality similar to the one of the factory. Performance and restrictions is one topic, but reliability is another topic. Try to drive your car in water/rain/snow and let's see how many years of abuse an aftermarket header can withstand. Reason is that there is no shield like the one in factory:





Wrapping or coating might be a solution, but how many are doing this?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think we are saying the same thing. Factory puts greater safety limits to protect the engine. If you change these limits and one day you don't get the best quality fuel from a random gas station, then you might have kaboom. The usage of an E85 fuel and of a flexible fuel kit is a good solution, but then you don't get always the same power and not all the tuners have this option.



I don't fully agree. The factory standards are usually much higher comparing to aftermarket products. The reason is that the factory has a multiple years warranty and they have to compensate in a failure. I have not seen yet a header with a quality similar to the one of the factory. Performance and restrictions is one topic, but reliability is another topic. Try to drive your car in water/rain/snow and let's see how many years of abuse an aftermarket header can withstand. Reason is that there is no wrapping ...

Yes some aftermarket products ( and tunes) are rubbish, like cheap ebay header, it will likely rust and crack in couple of years, but quality header from reputable aftermarket supplier will cost more but better quality and should last similar to oem.

I know of people who have destroyed cats in stock header with stock tune after tracking car, cats overheat and disintergrate, stock cats just not made for prolonged high speed track driving even on stock tune

yes oem products are likely tested far more extensivly than aftermarket, but they only test for expected conditions.

A lot of people that tune or add aftermarket parts drive car outside manufacturers expected conditions, hence they may expect a higher level of failure.

However quality aftermarket additions like catless header, tuning and oil coolers, performace brake pads for example may actually enhance the reliability of the car when driven outside normal conditions, assuming they are quality products.

[KoolBRZ]

Thank you Steve for not falling into the same old argument that tuners are the be all and end all, while OEM believers are luddites who think the world is flat. It really is situational, because the OEM has worked hard to get the most of the OEM components. The OEM tune however, does not have the flexibility to get the most from aftermarket components. So then, it really depends on what components you are running, whether or not you should run with a tune.

[ls1ac]

I agree with STEVE99 ,I thought the question was starting from scratch by a friend.
Also agree that factory tuning must be to the lowest common denominator, it must work high in the mountains as well as death valley 120F to -20F. It leaves gains available with a good tune that will not jeopardies the engine.

[shr133]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Try starting out in manual mode. Pay special attention to how your car reacts after each shift. 1 - 3 usually pull pretty well, 4th sometimes, but it always bogs in 5th and 6th. The only way to keep 5th from bogging is to rev 4th gear up to about 90, then shift to 5th. I'm currently running a surprisingly smooth tune, based on @shr133 's AVCS tables with mods to smooth transitions and one strip from shiv's AVCS tables, rescaled at the end, for dyno-tuned WOT ability. See pics below for some highlights of the current tune.

I like those AVCS maps, should be running really good.....
The factory maps are also used for emissions and make the engine run like crap.....


Now save that set up and just make small changes at a time but that has to be really close for a good do it all map.....

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by shr133

I like those AVCS maps, should be running really good.....
The factory maps are also used for emissions and make the engine run like crap.....


Now save that set up and just make small changes at a time but that has to be really close for a good do it all map.....

These maps work the best for me so far, in terms of acceleration and economy. Depending on the car's Intake and Exhaust restrictions, I think they can just be adjusted up or down by 1 point to compensate for more or less restriction. Like @shr133 said a difference of only 1 point is noticeable, if applied equally over the whole map. I have more Intake restriction than Exhaust, so my Intake table has more advance. I've also revised my PI/DI tables to get more response with more economy. See pics below for my revisions.

[shr133]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

These maps work the best for me so far, in terms of acceleration and economy. Depending on the car's Intake and Exhaust restrictions, I think they can just be adjusted up or down by 1 point to compensate for more or less restriction. Like @shr133 said a difference of only 1 point is noticeable, if applied equally over the whole map. I have more Intake restriction than Exhaust, so my Intake table has more advance. I've also revised my PI/DI tables to get more response with more economy. See pics below for my revisions.

I went back to my std map....
Running more DI had better MPG but this mix just seams to work the best..
I may make some low load adjustments....



Here's the DI angle map I'm using right now...
Seams to run good, real close, didn't seam to like more angle below 4000 rpm... the stock map is really weird, probably for safety.....

[shr133]

[shr133]

Working on a new exhaust map........
Put on a P & L Header no cat.......
It hated my map below 4000 rpm and ran like crap, so I had to back the map down....



Seams like the exhaust cam has to dialed in to your exhaust system....
So I would assume the intake has to be tuned for your intake....

So std maps just won't work, I think a good map is a good place to start but you will have to dial in the map for your set up and driving style....

So adding a header you will need a tune.....
Good thing is now the dip is now peak torque....
This header really rocks, I love the power.....