How is this not an RX8?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by rosmeister

The dictonary defines "Versus": 1. Against as in a sporting contest. 2. A comparison as compared to or as one of two choices in contrast with.

I meant definition "2." In hindsight I should have said "FR-S compared to RX-8." I come from the RX-8 Forum which is much more staid and less contentious, so I'm learning.

Yes, yes, dictionary definition, very good...

Anyways, all is now well in this small section of the interweb. Carry on.

[mike2100]

Originally Posted by fatoni

what is the compromise made for utility? i dont see having those extra doors costing the car anything



do you mean the suspension is stiffer or do you really mean the chassis?

The compromise is that the RX-8 weighs more, is softer, and has a longer wheelbase.

I said both the chassis and the damping (i.e. suspension) are stiffer in the 86.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by rosmeister

I can't find much in the way of comparisons. My RX-8 bought in November 2003 is almost 9 years old and I'm leaning toward an FR-S or a 2012 RX-8 as a last resort if no suitable replacement. How do the cars compare, especially in "feel" not specs. I'm not concerned too much on giving up 0-60 times as I would in cornering or slalom abiilty. I'd especially appreciate comments form former RX-8 drivers.

The BRZ is too new to compare properly, and it's been a while since I've driven an RX8. However, based on my memories of ~three years with an RX8 6MT and ~two weeks with a BRZ 6MT:

DYNAMICS

1. The BRZ suspension is harsher, but still livable.
2. The BRZ corners flatter.
3. The RX8 shifter is smoother and effortless. The BRZ's is notchier and not as good overall, though still excellent.
4. Both cars have responsive throttles (the BRZ is slightly better).
5. Both cars have superb steering (the BRZ is slightly better).
6. The BRZ is eager to rev at least below 4k RPM (whether or not it'll be as eager as the RX8 at high RPM is unknown as I'm still breaking her in).
7. The RX8 engine is smoother.
8. Both cars have excellent chassis.
9. The BRZ feels lighter and more nimble (in-between my MX5 and RX8).
10. The BRZ is more maneuverable (thanks to its shorter wheelbase).
11. The BRZ has slightly better acceleration below 4k RPM (again, above that is unknown as I'm still breaking her in).
12. Braking is similar.

OTHER

1. The RX8 has more rear passenger leg and head room.
2. The RX8 has better rear seats.
3. The BRZ has better front seats.
4. The BRZ has a bigger trunk and more utility with the fold down seats.
5. The BRZ has better amenities (I have a limited).
6. The BRZ gets 60-70% better MPG.
7. I don't remember the RX8 having such poor rearward visibility.
8. The RX8's engine sounds better.
9. The BRZ has more road noise.
10. The BRZ interior is nicer.

The RX8 was my favorite 4 seater. Now the BRZ is. It's exceeded my expectations as a mini-RX8 (or a slightly larger-fixed-roof MX5).

[R8]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The BRZ is too new to compare properly, and it's been a while since I've driven an RX8. However, based on my memories of ~three years with an RX8 6MT and ~two weeks with a BRZ 6MT:

DYNAMICS

1. The BRZ suspension is harsher, but still livable.
2. The BRZ corners flatter.
3. The RX8 shifter is smoother and effortless. The BRZ's is notchier and not as good overall, though still excellent.
4. Both cars have responsive throttles (the BRZ is slightly better).
5. Both cars have superb steering (I think the BRZ is slightly better, but again it's been a while since I handled an RX8).
6. The BRZ is eager to rev at least below 4k RPM (whether or not it'll be as eager as the RX8 at high RPM is unknown as I'm still breaking her in).
7. The RX8 engine is smoother.
8. Both cars have excellent chassis.
9. The BRZ feels lighter and more nimble (in-between my MX5 and RX8).
10. The BRZ is more maneuverable (thanks to its shorter wheelbase).
11. The BRZ has slightly better acceleration below 4k RPM (again, above that is unknown as I'm still breaking her in).
12. Braking is similar.

OTHER

1. The RX8 has more rear passenger leg and head room.
2. The RX8 has better rear seats.
3. The BRZ has better front seats.
4. The BRZ has a bigger trunk and more utility with the fold down seats.
5. The BRZ has better amenities (I have a limited).
6. The BRZ gets 60-70% better MPG.
7. I don't remember the RX8 having such poor rearward visibility.
8. The RX8's engine sounds better.
9. The BRZ has more road noise.

I'd second most of that, though I know only from a BRZ test drive, not living with it (and a RX-8 for 8 years and counting, lol).

Agreed, the BRZ does seem to corner flatter, in fact the whole car feels lower and wider and flatter, sorta like someone squished an RX-8 down into the pavement and it oozed out sideways and shorter, lol.

I do though like my (cloth) seats better than the BRZ, but that's subjective. The BRZ's just felt harder and less supportive to me, the RX-8 (cloth) kinda comforms to me more. I'm kinda thin and narrow though, so maybe a normal sized person would be more snuggled by the BRZ seats.

Agreed, the BRZ did seem torquier, it definately goes better from low revs. Probably more driveable around town that way.

While the BRZ has more gadgets (my RX-8 is 8 years old tech), IMHO the 8's interior is more upscale and integrated, though the twins certainly aren't bad.

Otherwise, yup... simiilar impressions

[scorcherjf]

Are you guys comparing a S1 or S2 (R3 mainly) RX8 to the BRZ? I'm curious how the BRZ's front seats compare to the Recaro seats in the R3 (which I find pretty good). Also, the R3 has different shocks than other RX8's so it might not be as "soft" as the S1.

I'm not sure how the handling "feels" in the BRZ compared to the RX8 but from a technical standpoint to say that both cars have an equally "excellent" chassis is somewhat confusing to me since the front suspension layout is completely different. If you're serious about tracking the BRZ you'll probably have to invest in a set of camber plates for the front while in the RX8 you wouldn't.

Anyway, I get the feeling the RX8 would be better suited to larger tracks with long sweeping corners because of it's chassis as well as longer wheelbase but the BRZ better at shorter and more technical tracks (sharper turns) because of the higher mid-range torque and lower weight.

As for a street car I really love how the BRZ can achieve a 30+ mpg. Oh and for the poster who said the RX8 "burns" oil, that's technically not what's happening. The computer injects oil for lubrication so while both cars will "use up" oil, one is on purpose and the other is not.

[shadoquad]

I didn't read much of this thread.

I would buy an FR-S/BRZ any day over an RX-8. I think the RX-8 is maybe a hair faster in a straight line, maybe, but it's a gas slurper, and being a rather large man, I found the front seats of the FRS much roomier than the RX-8. Just my two pennies. I'd rather get 30mpg and cruise in relative comfort.

[Razz]

See this thread

What you HATE the most on your FR-S/BRZ/GT86/FT86?

The RX8 has all the missing things plus.

The negative comments about the 8 listed in this thread are about 2004.

Check the latest version 2011

So there is a hugh difference for the money.

The cheap interior on the Toybaru should have been upgraded to the Lexus material.

Same company.

[R8]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Anyway, I get the feeling the RX8 would be better suited to larger tracks with long sweeping corners because of it's chassis as well as longer wheelbase but the BRZ better at shorter and more technical tracks (sharper turns) because of the higher mid-range torque and lower weight.

Great point, and also I'd say because of that the RX-8 isn't tuned as a "drifting" car as the FR-S supposedly is. The RX-8 does it's best to not get sideways (or tuck back in as soon as possible if it happens). It's very neutral through a corner, although you can still "dance" with it a bit.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by mike2100

The compromise is that the RX-8 weighs more, is softer, and has a longer wheelbase.

I said both the chassis and the damping (i.e. suspension) are stiffer in the 86.

I'm not sure a longer wheelbase is a compromise. And I don't know that being softer has anything to do with carrying people easier. How much stiffer is the frs than the rx8?

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by R8

I do though like my (cloth) seats better than the BRZ, but that's subjective. The BRZ's just felt harder and less supportive to me, the RX-8 (cloth) kinda comforms to me more. I'm kinda thin and narrow though, so maybe a normal sized person would be more snuggled by the BRZ seats.

My RX8's seats were also very good, I just don't remember being quite as impressed with them. To be fair to the RX8, I'm coming into the BRZ after 3 years in a 1999 MX5 with mediocre seats.

FWIW, I have a slim-medium build and my RX8 had cloth seats.

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Are you guys comparing a S1 or S2 (R3 mainly) RX8 to the BRZ? I'm curious how the BRZ's front seats compare to the Recaro seats in the R3 (which I find pretty good). Also, the R3 has different shocks than other RX8's so it might not be as "soft" as the S1.

I'm not sure how the handling "feels" in the BRZ compared to the RX8 but from a technical standpoint to say that both cars have an equally "excellent" chassis is somewhat confusing to me since the front suspension layout is completely different. If you're serious about tracking the BRZ you'll probably have to invest in a set of camber plates for the front while in the RX8 you wouldn't.

Anyway, I get the feeling the RX8 would be better suited to larger tracks with long sweeping corners because of it's chassis as well as longer wheelbase but the BRZ better at shorter and more technical tracks (sharper turns) because of the higher mid-range torque and lower weight.

As for a street car I really love how the BRZ can achieve a 30+ mpg. Oh and for the poster who said the RX8 "burns" oil, that's technically not what's happening. The computer injects oil for lubrication so while both cars will "use up" oil, one is on purpose and the other is not.

My RX8 was an S1; I've not driven an R3.

I didn't get into details about the chassis because I haven't driven the BRZ enough yet. The RX8's suspension has inherent advantages, but it's also a longer car with huge holes between the A and C pillars (the suicide doors aren't as rigid as a normal B pillar).

You're spot on about the RX8 being better suited for high speed tracks.

Originally Posted by Razz

See this thread

What you HATE the most on your FR-S/BRZ/GT86/FT86?

The RX8 has all the missing things plus.

Not a fan of hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Razz

The negative comments about the 8 listed in this thread are about 2004.

Check the latest version 2011

The S2 has several noteworthy improvements, but better MPG, shorter wheelbase, ~200 pounds less weight, more low-end pull, fold-down rear seats, and a bigger trunk aren't among them.

Again, I absolutely adore the RX8... I enjoyed driving it more than the STI, 3-series, etc. But I like the BRZ even better.

Originally Posted by fatoni

I'm not sure a longer wheelbase is a compromise.

Depends on how you drive the car. My focus is low-medium speed curves, so the shorter wheelbase is more fun.

[scorcherjf]

Well the RX-8's chassis is and still is ahead of most of the current sports cars mainly because of its double-wishbone front suspension compared to the BRZ's McPherson strut suspension.

The person who said that quote about wings was Randy Pobst and he said: "The more powerful cars feel like riding a horse, the RX-8 feels like wings bolted right to your arms."

Pobst also said in a recent review that in terms of driving experience and precision the Miata is better than the BRZ (Miata is, surprise, double wishbone up front as well). "There's no question the MX-5 is the best driver's car here."
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

It's quite well known that the RX-8 is very similar to the Miata and perhaps slightly more balanced. It is Mazda's flagship sportscar after all.

Originally Posted by mike2100

The 86 chassis is stiffer, the RX-8 more compliant (and the RX-8 was light years ahead of other cars in chassis stiffness when it debuted).

The 86 damping is stiffer but more controlled. I feel the bumps but they don't break my back. The RX-8 is a more comfortable touring car.

The RX-8 feels like hot butter flowing down the road. One famous review said driving the RX-8 is like bolting a pair of wings onto your back.
Driving the 86 is more like becoming the 86. The tires are the soles of your shoes.

Also, I've found the fender humps on the 86 allow you to place the tires VERY accurately.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Well the RX-8's chassis is and still is ahead of most of the current sports cars mainly because of its double-wishbone front suspension compared to the BRZ's McPherson strut suspension.

You're preaching to the choir. I was slightly disappointed when I found out the FT86 wasn't going to use wishbones in the front, but it's not a deal breaker (and there really wasn't a choice with the H4, which to me somewhat makes up for using struts).

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

"There's no question the MX-5 is the best driver's car here."
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

It's quite well known that the RX-8 is very similar to the Miata and perhaps slightly more balanced. It is Mazda's flagship sportscar after all.

NC2 > BRZ = NC1 > NB > RX8

(having written that, there's something endearing about the NB that's missing in the others)

[R8]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The RX8's suspension has inherent advantages, but it's also a longer car with huge holes between the A and C pillars (the suicide doors aren't as rigid as a normal B pillar).

True, but I think the RX-8's "spine" or backbone down the center was supposd to compensate for that. But I dunno if that makes it as stiff as a BRZ.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Well the RX-8's chassis is and still is ahead of most of the current sports cars mainly because of its double-wishbone front suspension compared to the BRZ's McPherson strut suspension.

The person who said that quote about wings was Randy Pobst and he said: "The more powerful cars feel like riding a horse, the RX-8 feels like wings bolted right to your arms."

Pobst also said in a recent review that in terms of driving experience and precision the Miata is better than the BRZ (Miata is, surprise, double wishbone up front as well). "There's no question the MX-5 is the best driver's car here."
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

It's quite well known that the RX-8 is very similar to the Miata and perhaps slightly more balanced. It is Mazda's flagship sportscar after all.

thats because the miata took the suspension from the rx8