Adjustable swaybars... what do you have set?

[Tor]

Though a package/preference thing, I am curious how you are running your adjustable anti-swaybars.

I have complete ST suspension. ST XTA coilovers (ST's "KW V2" version, not the more well known ST X) with 6.0 kg/mm front (336 lbs/in) and 5.0 kg/mm rear (280 lbs/in). The swaybars are solid 19 mm front and 17.5 mm rear, with a soft and hard setting. Tires AD08R 225/40R18

At the moment I have both front and rear in the soft setting. I am considering to set the rear in the hard setting, but I have limited track time to experiment at the moment and would rather focus on the driving when there.

How do you have yours set? Perhaps we could follow the same basic format:

Coilovers: ST XTA - (6 kg/5 kg front/rear, mention if not well know)
Tires: AD08R 225/40R18
Swaybar(s): ST (19/17.5 mm, mention if not well know)
Setting: Soft/soft

[CSG Mike]

What kind of event are you running?

[e1_griego]

What are you trying to fix?

[Tor]

Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What kind of event are you running?

Track days. I live quite close to Zolder circuit and went there twice so far. Both previous times was on Pirelli P Zero Nero GT, so I don't know what impact the AD08Rs may have on the handling. I am going there next week again and didn't plan to change the swaybars from the soft setting so far. I also live close to Nürburgring and might want to go there in the future (drove a few rounds on the Grand Prix circuit).

Originally Posted by e1_griego

What are you trying to fix?

I'm not sure, but my feeling on the road is that the car got more understeer with the AD08R. Would that make sense, or am I just imagining things?

I don't know if video is any help in seeing how the car behaved on the Pirelli, but here is a link anyway (from 6:25, the first part is me spinning around and stuff, so you can skip that part ):

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Tor

Thanks for your help!


Track days. I live quite close to Zolder circuit and went there twice so far. Both previous times was on Pirelli P Zero Nero GT, so I don't know what impact the AD08Rs may have on the handling. I am going there next week again and didn't plan to change the swaybars from the soft setting so far. I also live close to Nürburgring and might want to go there in the future (drove a few rounds on the Grand Prix circuit).


I'm not sure, but my feeling on the road is that the car got more understeer with the AD08R. Would that make sense, or am I just imagining things?

I don't know if video is any help in seeing how the car behaved on the Pirelli, but here is a link anyway (from 6:25, the first part is me spinning around and stuff, so you can skip that part ):

Get an adjustable rear sway, start of the softest setting, and increase the setting until you find the balance you want.

[Shneegle]

Before buying a new rear bar change the front to stock bar and see how the car responds. Since you are getting understeer you want to stiffen the rear. If your gonna buy another sway then listen to CSG Mike above.

My current setup
Fortune 500 Coilovers: 8kg/7kg 7 clicks front and 0 clicks rear
Whiteline adjustable sways: 22mm/16mm Stiff/soft
Tires: Was on Hankook RS3 V2's before this last track day which I was on hoosier A7's.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Shneegle

Before buying a new rear bar change the front to the stiffer setting and see how the car responds. Since you are getting understeer you do not want to stiffen the rear, you want to soften it. If your gonna buy another sway then listen to CSG Mike above.

My current setup
Fortune 500 Coilovers: 8kg/7kg 7 clicks front and 0 clicks rear
Whiteline adjustable sways: 22mm/16mm Stiff/soft
Tires: Was on Hankook RS3 V2's before this last track day which I was on hoosier A7's.

You mean stiffen the rear.

Stiffening the front will improve initial response, but also cause the front to load even faster, amplifying the understeer.

[strat61caster]

To the OP, assuming everything else is set and sways really are the final tuning point of your setup (not alignment, damper settings, tire pressures, spring rates, etc.) I'd go back to the stock front given what you describe, softer front = more grip in a basic sense.

Unless of course the soft hole means your 19mm ST bar is softer than OE.

[Tor]

Thanks for the input.

The swaybars that I have are adjustable and at the moment both in soft.
Alignment should be good: -2.5 front, -1.8 rear and toe in 0.02 inch front 0.04 rear. Tire pressure around 34-35 psi hot all round.
Dampers (combined rebound/compression) set at 6/16 front and 7/16 rear.

I will leave all as it is and go to the track day next week (3 x 1 hour track time with breaks in between).

Maybe I am just confusing the enormous grip of the AD08R (compared to the 3 years old Pirelli). The rears just grip no matter what I do with the throttle.

Where I felt push was in the following situation: Empty country road, tight hairpin and going early on the throttle (to provoke a slide). Previosly the rear would have come around, but the AD08R just grip and push the car over the front wheel for a split second, the they gripped too and the car just went around the hairpin. The road was pretty dirty, so maybe thats played a part too.

I guess I need to drive it proper on track to get an real impression. Maybe I will play with the dampers and set the front softer and the rear stiffer. Do you think that would help? Or maybe set some toe out in the front?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tor

The swaybars that I have are adjustable and at the moment both in soft.
Alignment should be good: -2.5 front, -1.8 rear and toe in 0.02 inch front 0.04 rear. Tire pressure around 34-35 psi hot all round.
Dampers (combined rebound/compression) set at 6/16 front and 7/16 rear.

...

Maybe I will play with the dampers and set the front softer and the rear stiffer. Do you think that would help? Or maybe set some toe out in the front?

I'd try more front camber first, might solve your understeer problem in under 5 minutes. Unless your tire temperatures tell you you're good on that front. My car has been happiest at >-3 degrees on every suspension setup I've tried.

The toe change is real but I never felt it behind the wheel.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Tor

Where I felt push was in the following situation: Empty country road, tight hairpin and going early on the throttle (to provoke a slide). Previosly the rear would have come around, but the AD08R just grip and push the car over the front wheel for a split second, the they gripped too and the car just went around the hairpin. The road was pretty dirty, so maybe thats played a part too.

Are you at stock power levels? If so you will have a hard time overpowering fresh AD08Rs.

I would wait to properly evaluate the balance at a track where you can drive 100%. The rear is pretty easy to reach and adjust at the track, you don't even need to remove a wheel. In my opinion you have too large a rear bar compared to your front bar, but if you don't like the way it currently drives AND going stiffer in the rear makes you faster, more power to you.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Are you at stock power levels? If so you will have a hard time overpowering fresh AD08Rs.

I would wait to properly evaluate the balance at a track where you can drive 100%. The rear is pretty easy to reach and adjust at the track, you don't even need to remove a wheel. In my opinion you have too large a rear bar compared to your front bar, but if you don't like the way it currently drives AND going stiffer in the rear makes you faster, more power to you.

Yes, I'm stock power and the AD08Rs have less the 200 miles. The grip is amazing! I got them to double for both street and track, but to be honest I think I might prefer something less grippy for the street. I might have to look into getting a 3rd set of rims for the old Pirellis.

I will leave the swaybars in soft and drive it on track and wait and see. I have 3 x 1 hour sessions, but I don't think I will change the them on site. I'd rather relax in between and focus on the driving. At most I will play with the dampers and maybe, as @strat61caster suggested, front camber. It should be easy too with the top mounts and I know center is -2.5 and most is -3.5. Can I expect them to adjust linear in between, so that e.g. halfway towards max is -3.0 deg?

Thanks again.

[Shneegle]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You mean stiffen the rear.

Stiffening the front will improve initial response, but also cause the front to load even faster, amplifying the understeer.

Indeed, thought he was talking about the issue of spinning. Lets say I was reading what i wanted to I guess.

[Tor]

I had my trackday and got to try out the AD08Rs. I was a bit disappointed about the difference to the Pirelli Zero Nero GT. Maybe I was expecting too much, or the Pirelli are not that bad?

There was a noticeable difference in car behaviour though. Just like I felt on the street it initially seemed to push more in slow curves.

I adjusted my dampers to 5 click front and 4 clicks rear (previously I had the other way around and a bit softer - 6 front 7 rear as far as I recall). And that seemed to do the trick! I don't know if it's just psychological, but the car seemed to rotate way better. So I will leave the swaybars as they are in their soft settings.

Tire temperatures were somewhat in the ballpark. I guess it could use a bit more camber both front and rear, but I will leave it as it is since the car spends quite a bit time on the streets as well.

I improved my best time from 2:08 to 2:03. I don't put that on the AD08R, as much as I would put it down to me getting more familiar with the track, braking later, driving the chicanes faster, finally starting to get more of a grip on trail braking and generally taking a better line.

Here is my best lap (the speeds in the corners are very inaccurate due to using my Phones internal GPS):

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0tS8JGzdU[/ame]