twins vs miata (AGAIN)

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by FX86

but the miata still looks like a chick's car!!!!!!

That's alright. I am man enough to pull it off. Besides i never mind having my paws on something with nice curves.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by FX86

but the miata still looks like a chick's car!!!!!!

Not at all. I t looks like a 55-65-years-old man's car.

[FX86]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

That's alright. I am man enough to pull it off. Besides i never mind having my paws on something with nice curves.

that would be like a tattooed muscle dude riding a vespa


but i wouldn't mind driving a miata at sometime like 12am in the early morning when it's dark with the top up and tinted windows and a cap so no one recognizes me and turn off the lights before pulling into my driveway so my neighbors don't see me haha

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by totopo

because roll is mostly driver preference on the track.

The miata was designed specifically for more roll because the lead designer feels that more roll angle gives more feedback for drivers so they can more easily drive to the limit.

The 86 was designed for less roll because the lead designer feels that less roll angle gives the driver more confidence and so they can more easily drive to the limit.

It's again mostly a preference thing. It's hard to say which one is "objectively" better, but it gives fanbois something to harp over. Car magazines have no problem praising the 86 for it's flat handling nature, or the miata for it's driver feedback. It's all whoever is writing the articles, how they feel that day, how much money the automakers are padding their pockets. Who cares. like whichever car you like and stop wasting time bashing other ones.

also the miata suspension deals with roll a ton better with uneven double-A compared to mac phearson.

+1111111111111

(my 1 key is honestly sticking, and I thought it was funny to just leave it like that)

I have to give the edge to the ND in the handling department. It's just smaller and lighter, and it rotates quicker. Body roll really is a choice, and it seems to put a lot of people off, but not me. The tradeoff is a bit slower transitions in the tightest slaloms in AX, but everything else, I am in awe of how hard you can push the thing, with neither end giving up.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by Entroper

+1111111111111

(my 1 key is honestly sticking, and I thought it was funny to just leave it like that)

I have to give the edge to the ND in the handling department. It's just smaller and lighter, and it rotates quicker. Body roll really is a choice, and it seems to put a lot of people off, but not me. The tradeoff is a bit slower transitions in the tightest slaloms in AX, but everything else, I am in awe of how hard you can push the thing, with neither end giving up.

All true points. My problem is the slower transitions, or transient response. I have just become too used to more race/track like setups. However I am amazed at how well the ND handles the weight shifts with all that roll. But, it does handle it well. My theory is that the ND could be a serious AX car with a proper setup. But its only theory right now, where as I know what the BRZ can accomplish. But man i would love to go ride in one of Brian Goodwin's ND MX5s. His NDs with minor upgrades are killing his more upgraded NC Miatas.

I think one reason i keep the ND in a 2nd place position, is because what i really wanted from a new Miata is a new S2000. And thats not fair, but I would love to see Mazda, make a Miata with a tighter setup and maybe even an 8000rpm redline that can handle some abuse. But at least Mazda is still making a fun car. Honda hasnt made anything fun in about a decade.

[kodos78]

The Miata is a great car. I wouldn't mind having one. Yes, the styling is not for everyone. The styling of the FRS/BRZ isn't for everyone either. This is one reason I got a gray BRZ - it doesn't look boy racer'ish for when I have to meet with clients as opposed to the more striking blue which was my first choice.

If I had the money (or, rather, if I didn't want to exasperate my wife, lol), I'd have both an ND and a BRZ in my garage. The ND for the days when I want to take the top down and drive, and the BRZ for situations for when I don't want a ragtop, and I wanted to take a couple of my children with me, or to go to meet with clients.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by FX86

but the miata still looks like a chick's car!!!!!!

Originally Posted by mdm

Not at all. I t looks like a 55-65-years-old man's car.

I don't think it looks like either of these things, it just inherits the reputation from 25 years of Miatas.

[drewbot]

Originally Posted by FX86

but the miata still looks like a chick's car!!!!!!

But I'd rather be called a chick's car than seeing used 2013 models that are riced TF out, crashing, ruining my insurance premiums

[ajaxthebetter]

I wanted to like it visually. And I did, until I saw it in person. Looks like a bar of Dove soap on wheels.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by drewbot

But I'd rather be called a chick's car than seeing used 2013 models that are riced TF out, crashing, ruining my insurance premiums

Erm...

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Yea they both would lose power at the same rate. Neither would gain a significant advantage since only turbo motors compensate for altitude.

-Josh

No, as it's a percentage.

General rule of thumb is 3% for every 1000 feet, so:

5280 feet = 15.84% loss or 84.16% power

FRS: 168.32 HP
Miata: 130.448 HP

Instead of the 45 HP difference, there is a ~38 HP difference.

Not to mention their testing wasn't scientific at all. You don't do one 0-60, 1/4 mile, or lap and say something is done. You have to do multiples and take the average or simply show the range.

Originally Posted by Atropine

If you give the BRZ new tires...you have to give the Miata new shocks...to be fair.

Um, no. The club sports already have Bilsteins and sticky high performance tires. It quite obvious Mazda is pulling Ferrari level BS like they always have. If anyone remembers the crap with the first gen Mazdaspeed 3/6 and how they didn't come close to the power numbers they're stated in independent testing.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So much butthurt, the Miata is faster. Get over it.

Oh, look, it's you again...

But you're wrong as usual:
Miata Top Speed: 130 MPH
FRS Top Speed: 140 MPH

See, I can pick and choose data to support my argument too.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Here are track results by more established publications. ND Miata Club Edition vs. Twins, both fully stock:



On average over the five courses, the Miata Club Edition is about 0.08 seconds faster (1:53.32 v 1:53.40). Take from that what you will.

Neat. On a side note, I've been trying to find lap times of the BRZ tS forever and can't seem to find anything at all. It's probably all published in Japanese, but I'm sure it's quite a bit faster than a normal BRZ.

Originally Posted by totopo

because roll is mostly driver preference on the track.

The miata was designed specifically for more roll because the lead designer feels that more roll angle gives more feedback for drivers so they can more easily drive to the limit.

The 86 was designed for less roll because the lead designer feels that less roll angle gives the driver more confidence and so they can more easily drive to the limit.

It's again mostly a preference thing. It's hard to say which one is "objectively" better, but it gives fanbois something to harp over. Car magazines have no problem praising the 86 for it's flat handling nature, or the miata for it's driver feedback. It's all whoever is writing the articles, how they feel that day, how much money the automakers are padding their pockets. Who cares. like whichever car you like and stop wasting time bashing other ones.

also the miata suspension deals with roll a ton better with uneven double-A compared to mac phearson.

True, but it has other effects too. A car with soft suspension "feels" faster as weight shifts to the back on acceleration. It "feels" like it's taking a corner harder because it's leaning more. It "feels" like the brakes are better because it's standing on it's nose. It's also why I think people think the twins need more power, the suspension is so planted, it feels like it could take so much more.

It will arguably be slower through a tight transition as well.

Personally I've always thought they went so soft on the Miata because it's cheap. Toyota/Subaru put a lot of time into matching the shock valving and the spring setup on our cars, where it appears Mazda doesn't give a crap because so many people rip the factory stuff out anyway. Or maybe it's because old farts would complain...

Originally Posted by FX86

that would be like a tattooed muscle dude riding a vespa


but i wouldn't mind driving a miata at sometime like 12am in the early morning when it's dark with the top up and tinted windows and a cap so no one recognizes me and turn off the lights before pulling into my driveway so my neighbors don't see me haha

Someone's not secure in their sexuality

I'm telling you guys right now, if this existed when I bought my BRZ, I would probably have bought it instead.

[Atropine]

@Poodles

Ditto about the Miata RF...I have seriously pondered getting one as well. I sold my BRZ a year or 2 ago when I bought my 91 Miata from my Grandfather.

I mentioned the Shocks because so many people (on both forums) for some reason have rose-colored glasses.

Miata guys talk about "a tune and some shocks and a Miata will run circles around a Twin".

Twin guys say "a tune and tires, and a Twin will spank a Miata"

The reality...these cars are so damn close, its the driver mod that matters the most.

Also, both are great...it is great to have alternatives to the Muscle/Pony cars.

Now only if Nissan would shrink the Z or bring back the 240 SX...

[FX86]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Someone's not secure in their sexuality

I'm telling you guys right now, if this existed when I bought my BRZ, I would probably have bought it instead.

actually i wouldn't mind having that RF but i would still wear a cap and sunglasses lol...you can't be a big guy with tattoos driving something like that...no one will take you seriously especially the females lol...they might think you "drive on the wrong side of the road" if you get my drift

[FX86]

Originally Posted by drewbot

But I'd rather be called a chick's car than seeing used 2013 models that are riced TF out, crashing, ruining my insurance premiums

at least we not are not on the level of civic circa earlier 2000's