twins vs miata (AGAIN)

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Hoahao

Wouldn't the MX5 lose some power too?? A sea level test would be interesting I think, especially with equal tires.

Yea they both would lose power at the same rate. Neither would gain a significant advantage since only turbo motors compensate for altitude.

-Josh

[guybo]

Yeah it would, but I think it'd affect the FRS more. Maybe not, but it'd be neat to see.

[Atropine]

Buy the car you like...

The end...if you can't appreciate how good the ND Miata is, that is on you.

I don't get why you care what an automotive journalist thinks about a car you already bought.

About that "Slush fund"...you are aware that Subaru and Toyota are way bigger than Mazda right?

Now some "facts"...

0-60 and 1/4 Mile...the Miata is faster.

Most journalist prefer the Miata in everyday driving. Most journalist prefer the Twins on a track.

The whole fixed roof thing is a real concern for serious people on a race track.

About the comparison with mods...

If you give the BRZ new tires...you have to give the Miata new shocks...to be fair.

Both are great cars...get the one that fits you.

This isn't comparing an AW-11 MR2 to a Pontiac Fiero...

[perryair]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Buy the car you like...

The end...if you can't appreciate how good the ND Miata is, that is on you.

I don't get why you care what an automotive journalist thinks about a car you already bought.

About that "Slush fund"...you are aware that Subaru and Toyota are way bigger than Mazda right?

Now some "facts"...

0-60 and 1/4 Mile...the Miata is faster.

Most journalist prefer the Miata in everyday driving. Most journalist prefer the Twins on a track.

The whole fixed roof thing is a real concern for serious people on a race track.

About the comparison with mods...

If you give the BRZ new tires...you have to give the Miata new shocks...to be fair.

Both are great cars...get the one that fits you.

This isn't comparing an AW-11 MR2 to a Pontiac Fiero...

i care about my car continuing to be a real live production model. most major autojourno outlets ran some type of story last year about how the sales were so sluggish that the model could/would/should be killed off. when during that entire span, the twins have outsold the miata. how many stories do you read about how mazda could/should/would kill it? also, noone gives a sh!% what i think about my car, but plenty of people rely on these guys to help them figure out what car to buy. them not liking the twins has a direct and negative impact on sales of the models.

and lets not forget that most of the mags are comparing the club edition miata that has a min of $2500 higher price tag (as well as upgraded dampers, suspension, etc) than the twins theyre testing against.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by perryair

and lets not forget that most of the mags are comparing the club edition miata that has a min of $2500 higher price tag (as well as upgraded dampers, suspension, etc) than the twins theyre testing against.

So much butthurt, the Miata is faster. Get over it.

[Summerwolf]

All cars mentioned prior to this post are slow. Get over it.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by perryair

i care about my car continuing to be a real live production model. most major autojourno outlets ran some type of story last year about how the sales were so sluggish that the model could/would/should be killed off. when during that entire span, the twins have outsold the miata. how many stories do you read about how mazda could/should/would kill it? also, noone gives a sh!% what i think about my car, but plenty of people rely on these guys to help them figure out what car to buy. them not liking the twins has a direct and negative impact on sales of the models.

and lets not forget that most of the mags are comparing the club edition miata that has a min of $2500 higher price tag (as well as upgraded dampers, suspension, etc) than the twins theyre testing against.

I understand the points you are making, but you are giving the Journalist way too much credit. Theres a few of us car assholes on these forums that will argue cars all day long. But in the end it doesnt really matter. We listen to our favorite car journos because we like car culture and discussing it. But in the end if you really want to discuss or argue the two cars. Go drive both back to back and share your observations.

But as it has been said before. They are both great cars that were designed within a certain budget, to be cars made for driving pleasure. They both deliver and are quite different. I may bash on a Miata right now because I track a BRZ. But i bet I own another Miata in the future. Also, no magazine comparo is going to be apples to apples ever. Right now stock vs stock the Miata is the faster car around most tracks. Doesnt bother me. I havent had a single ND miata beat me on the AX course yet. But i bet someone will soon.

These comparos are for fun. Remember that. Personally i dont pick favorites. Only picking one car to enjoy is like picking a favorite caliber of bullet. Or only using one sexual position. Or only eating one kind of food. The Miata
is a good dish, even if its not to your taste.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Doubletap

The MX-5 is objectively faster. Not just by feel. Faster 0-60 and on a track. Funny this thread came up as I just finished watching this.

This was the shittiest review I've seen in a while.

9.1 sec 0-60 on the FR-S by their "Pro" driver reflects a horrible launch even in the mile high city, whereas 7.5 for the Miata is close to sea level runs. Hmm....

Then for the road course, they switch to a cell phone for a lap timer?

A cell phone.


Why even bother instrumented tests when it's going to be done this amateurishly?

Finally Mr. Big Boned bemoans the FR-S powerband, while the "pro" driver says the FR-S engine and torque was better at the track. Erm, who what when?

What I took from this video is that the pro guy can't launch a car, and the fat guy doesn't know how to drive a car with peak torque above 5k RPM. Overall this was a pretty bad showing for The Fast Lane Car, not the FR-S.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So much butthurt, the Miata is faster. Get over it.

hey, try reading a bit before you snark. i could give a crap about the actual numbers, its the favored treatment relative to any meaningful difference in them in their press coverage.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by perryair

hey, try reading a bit before you snark. i could give a crap about the actual numbers, its the favored treatment relative to any meaningful difference in them in their press coverage.

I have written literally pages about it. There's nothing you have said that I haven't read elsewhere or considered on my own.

Bottom line is that in practically every metric the Miata is faster. Tip the scale however you want to in order to help yourself sleep at night. On a truly level playing field the Miata holds an advantage over the 86 in most scenarios.

Change whatever you want, bitch about the tires (that are only worth at best a tenth or two of a second) or the price difference (which just like the tarted up 86's, the top of the line Miata isn't any faster than the truly comparable club sport). It won't change anything.

The Miata is the best and truest representation of a sports car on the market. Period.

Edit: To clarify, in contrast the 86 is kind of a do it all car that falls short in a couple key places for many people. Hence the less than favorable treatment by the press. It hasn't spent 27 years carving out it's place in the market, it popped up into a void that was left unfulfilled for a reason: not a ton of people want something like an 86.

We will get another ~4 years of waning sales with the refreshed model and then it's a coin toss to see if Toyota thinks the car is worth continuing.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

it popped up into a void that was left unfulfilled for a reason: not a ton of people want something like an 86.

We will get another ~4 years of waning sales with the refreshed model and then it's a coin toss to see if Toyota thinks the car is worth continuing.

in the us, scion and subaru have sold almost 75,000 copies of the twins from mid 2012 till now. you have to go back to 2007 until now to hit 75,000 miata sales. and even with the new miata, the twins will likely outsell the miata this year. *and* the new 86 will probably get a bit more of toyota's marketing muscle behind it to invigorate sales a bit.

some people evidently are ignoring you and the journos. i guess i shouldnt feel so bad about it.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by perryair

in the us, scion and subaru have sold almost 75,000 copies of the twins from mid 2012 till now. you have to go back to 2007 until now to hit 75,000 miata sales. and even with the new miata, the twins will likely outsell the miata this year. *and* the new 86 will probably get a bit more of toyota's marketing muscle behind it to invigorate sales a bit.

some people evidently are ignoring you and the journos. i guess i shouldnt feel so bad about it.

True on all the above.

Don't think twice man. On the 86 vs. Miata debate at least Strat has been consitent (ly wrong). He's been working the story of how great Primacy's are as summer tires and how horrible 86 sales have been since the beginning of time. He usually follows up his post with stats that almost nobody buys and an attempt to minimize and deflect facts that are posted afterwards. Oh also, to him, a tested car's price and factory installed options don't matter at all.


Vehicle Sales by Year @ Goodcar/Badcar

• 84,999 Twins since 2012
• 75,929 Miatas since 2007 or 61,366 from 2002 - 2006
• 86 beats Miata in sales by either metric.

Yeah, horrible seller in the U.S. Not a hit at all.
@strat61caster
As awesome as you are man, you're clearly a fanboy and that's totally ok. I'm a fanboy for Amy Fay. I admit it.



Now please sell your car and buy a Miata, then immediately go here. You'll be a lot happier.

**kidding, don't sell your car. Stay here and appreciate more Amy.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Why even bother instrumented tests when it's going to be done this amateurishly?

Here are track results by more established publications. ND Miata Club Edition vs. Twins, both fully stock:

Streets of Willow
- ND Club - 1:29.9
- BRZ - 1:31.3

Laguna Seca
- ND Club - 1:50.7
- BRZ - 1:51.3

Blyton Park
- ND Club - 1:15.4
- BRZ - 1:15.9

Bedford Autodrome West
- ND Club - 1:29.8
- GT86 - 1:29.9

VIR Grand
- BRZ - 3:18.6
- ND Club - 3:20.8

On average over the five courses, the Miata Club Edition is about 0.08 seconds faster (1:53.32 v 1:53.40). Take from that what you will.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Here are track results by more established publications. ND Miata Club Edition vs. Twins, both fully stock:



On average over the five courses, the Miata Club Edition is about 0.08 seconds faster (1:53.32 v 1:53.40). Take from that what you will.

Miata Club Edition comparison vs base FR-S (from a performance perspective).

Only fools fall for this comparison. Look, same as before, it takes a base $26k Miata + the club package + brembo/wheels ugprade which is $3.5k-6k worth of critical factory upgrades (limited slip diff, Bilstein Shocks, Brembo brakes, wheels, tires, aero) to beat to beat a base $26k FR-S around a track by .08 seconds. For the Miata, that's not impressive at all (nor surprising) and only serves to make the Miata look bad. Put even half that amount into the twin and it it smokes any factory modded version of the MX-5 without breaking a sweat. I won't ignore that even if some will.

Really, if a person cared about lap times on their FR-S/BRZ they wouldn't invest $600 in tires/camber bolts? Seriously?