Which lightweight N/A V6 or H6 to choose?

[Summerwolf]

Where did you find that weight?

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Where did you find that weight?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.p...post&p=1297186

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

To the "LS will be lighter" crowd:

Fully dressed LS1: 460lb
Fully dressed EZ30R: 315lb

And the T56 weighs probably double the Aisin gearbox.

Disclaimer: I'm not telling you to get an LS1. I'm just providing facts to aid your decision.

I also told you about the height issues of a 60 degree v6, and about that starter issue on the stock gearbox should you choose an EZ30.

Believe it or not, two GT86's (that I know of) have been done with Toyota v6's. Both had custom intake manifolds and other mods to clear height.

If you want an anything-6, get the EZ. It's a great idea and it fits. It's not a bad engine. This engine bay does not lack space in front.

That said, what a load of BS. Do your research.

That's 457 pounds for the LS1, if you want to be accurate.

The quoted LS weight includes the following:
2 Cast iron exhaust manifolds
a 42 pound dual-mass flywheel
Power steering pump, reservoir
2 unnecessary tensioner pulley assemblies.

Those pulley assemblies will come off when the PS pump does, as you don't need it.

In fact, none of the above items will be retained in any real build. You can lose 30 pounds from flywheel alone. The cast iron manifolds will disappear for fitment issues, even if you wanted them. Your final weight will be closer to an even 400. Or less.

The weight of an EZ30R, and I quote...

"no clutch or flywheel, fluids drained, intake & TB resting on top, no PS pump, no alternator, AC compressor lying on top. The AC compressor isn't the right one, but it should weigh within a couple/few pounds I think."

312 pounds. Not exactly "Fully dressed." No headers either.

That number is a happy 50-70 pounds shy of "fully dressed."

http://sl-i.net/FORUM/archive/index.php/t-19003.html

The T56 Magnum XL weighs 128 pounds.

The stock FA20 Plus transmission weighs 480 pounds. That's without the heavy stock header.

"research" doesn't mean "find unverified numbers that reinforce your preconceived notions without checking."

We understand that no 86 is going to be the fastest car in the world, and any build hinges on personal preference. The forum is here to help with information, but don't try to bend reality to match your preconceptions. That's how the whole argument started. A v6 or H6 is not the best engine for this car. Period. But it might be the best for you, in this car. You don't have to defend the reasoning, just ask specific questions, or request information and watch it pour in.

[DAEMANO]

This thread is still going? Thought the level was thick enough to kill it by page 2.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

That's 457 pounds for the LS1, if you want to be accurate.

a 42 pound dual-mass flywheel

No, that's the Auto version weight with a simple auto flex plate. With the manual flywheel attached, It's 497lb.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

The weight of an EZ30R, and I quote...

"no clutch or flywheel, fluids drained, intake & TB resting on top, no PS pump, no alternator, AC compressor lying on top. The AC compressor isn't the right one, but it should weigh within a couple/few pounds I think."

312 pounds. Not exactly "Fully dressed." No headers either.

That number is a happy 50-70 pounds shy of "fully dressed."

That's with AC compressor sitting on it. I'm not sure if the LS weight is with an AC compressor fitted.

I've had EZ30 headers in my hand before and they'd be lucky to weigh 3lb each.

The source I referenced was with the Alternator fitted.

Regardless of 20lb here or there, it's nowhere near enough to make up the 145lb difference between the figures.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

No, that's the Auto version weight with a simple auto flex plate. With the manual flywheel attached, It's 497lb.

The whole post and that's all you read?

The hell with it.

You cannot be educated.

If you ever complete the swap, properly documented, everything working, I'll paypal you 50 bucks.

It's a pretty safe bet that it never happens.

Good luck with the ECU. Let me know what you do about the fuel system. I'm out.

http://www.v8s2000.com/forums/showth...GHT-DIFFERENCE

Read that.

Vaya con dios

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

The whole post and that's all you read?

Of course I read it all. I quoted some more stuff in a subsequent post.

Originally Posted by Spartarus

http://www.v8s2000.com/forums/showth...GHT-DIFFERENCE

Read that.

I did. That's about what I expected. I know the LS series are light for their capacity. Not sure what your point is.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.p...post&p=1297186

Ls1 weight?

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Ls1 weight?

Not sure what you mean sorry. The LS1 weight has already been discussed.

[-Willis-86touge]

Originally Posted by GSpeed

I do love me some good bench racing.

What about an LFX? You mentioned only wanting port injection, but you're also talking about not wanting a caveman motor, so...

Motec M142 would have no problem driving an LFX, if you want to go high-tech.

Jake

My vote is with this guy!!

Think about it basically a ls with less weight!!! Somewhere I read it's a newer ls with two cylinders chopped off. 300 hp and 275tq. Seen them with almost 300 whp on e85 and cam! On YouTube their is a video of a cammed one running and the lope on it makes it sound like a boxer. At least I think it's close enough. Grassrootsmotorsports had a swap kit for the Miata I think there's a reason they decided on this and not some Toyota or Nissan etc motor. Maybe. Besides it will be cheaper. And get even cheaper when people pull them and swap a v8. Grassroots also states that they saved 30lbs compared to the Miata motor and I bet the Miata motor is even lighter than the fa20. I have already had this planned. As soon as I pay off my car!! Lol 2years baby!! Did I mention 7200 redline- close to ours I basically think it's the closest thing to retain similar feel. Also I believe they use a variant of our transmission. So maybe internals swap. Haven't compared in person. Worst case swap trans will prob be almost same weight. Also if we were to sit it next to the firewall as with the ls swap I think it would give closer 50/50 weight distribution. Didn't the ls swap have nearly identical factory weight distribution, and that's with almost 200lbs added. Hell if the power is not enough throw on a supercharger and have v8 like power and still prob lighter than the stock fa20?!? Maybe not but pretty close. Also lets say you wanted more torque-well theirs a model for that too. Also I believe the Colorado crowd is developing a stroker for it so maybe a lot more torque their? Hp? Oh, one last thing, technically it doesn't have a header. It has a merge collector in the block its self. And has two down pipes. This would make it easier to swap seeing how you wouldnt have a bunch of extra piping to deal with.

So to sum it up
-lightweight (350lbs as installed with accessories)(-30lbs stock fa20)
-e85 capable
-good power
-cheap
-higher reviving type
-direct injection
-good gas mileage due to deactivation of cylinders

[-Willis-86touge]

http://www.miataturbo.net/build-thre...-thread-83090/[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aENcvEkpRtY[/ame]

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by -Willis-86touge

My vote is with this guy!!

Think about it basically a ls with less weight!!! Somewhere I read it's a newer ls with two cylinders chopped off. 300 hp and 275tq. Seen them with almost 300 whp on e85 and cam! On YouTube their is a video of a cammed one running and the lope on it makes it sound like a boxer. At least I think it's close enough. Grassrootsmotorsports had a swap kit for the Miata I think there's a reason they decided on this and not some Toyota or Nissan etc motor. Maybe. Besides it will be cheaper. And get even cheaper when people pull them and swap a v8. Grassroots also states that they saved 30lbs compared to the Miata motor and I bet the Miata motor is even lighter than the fa20. I have already had this planned. As soon as I pay off my car!! Lol 2years baby!! Did I mention 7200 redline- close to ours I basically think it's the closest thing to retain similar feel. Also I believe they use a variant of our transmission. So maybe internals swap. Haven't compared in person. Worst case swap trans will prob be almost same weight. Also if we were to sit it next to the firewall as with the ls swap I think it would give closer 50/50 weight distribution. Didn't the ls swap have nearly identical factory weight distribution, and that's with almost 200lbs added. Hell if the power is not enough throw on a supercharger and have v8 like power and still prob lighter than the stock fa20?!? Maybe not but pretty close. Also lets say you wanted more torque-well theirs a model for that too. Also I believe the Colorado crowd is developing a stroker for it so maybe a lot more torque their? Hp? Oh, one last thing, technically it doesn't have a header. It has a merge collector in the block its self. And has two down pipes. This would make it easier to swap seeing how you wouldnt have a bunch of extra piping to deal with.

So to sum it up
-lightweight
-e85 capable
-good power
-cheap
-higher reviving type

I think you might be thinking partly of one engine and partly of another.

The LFX is a 60 degree DOHC V6 that likes to rev. Has most of the same packaging issues and the 2GR. Not particularly light. I believe that it's DI.

The other V6 type is the 90 degree odd-fire "chopped LS" V6. LU3 and/or LV3. They are very light and torquey. They don't like to rev (one makes peak power at 5300 and the other at 4600). They don't sound nice at all IMO. A good daily driver engine and very light. Just not much of a track car engine.

[-Willis-86touge]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I think you might be thinking partly of one engine and partly of another.

The LFX is a 60 degree DOHC V6 that likes to rev. Has most of the same packaging issues and the 2GR. Not particularly light. I believe that it's DI.

The other V6 type is the 90 degree odd-fire "chopped LS" V6. LU3 and/or LV3. They are very light and torquey. They don't like to rev (one makes peak power at 5300 and the other at 4600). They don't sound nice at all IMO. A good daily driver engine and very light. Just not much of a track car engine.

Your right I recheck the lv3 spec! Well that just leaves the lfx. And the Colorado does have it. So the stroker is still a go maybe!! But I will have to disagree on not light don't have the exact numbers will try to find. But I do know the lfx was made to save weight! And like I said the Miata guy weighed his car before and after and saved 30 lbs. yes I know he probably added a light weight flywheel and others things. But so did the ls guys