Honda considering an S2000 successor - report

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by reni

If Honda makes another sports car it will by hybrid, heavy, and ugly. If you want an s2000, just buy an s2000; I really doubt Honda will ever go back to making cars like that.

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Emissions and fuel economy regulations pretty much put the kibosh on that sort of thing...

Any new version will only share the name with the ancestor. Anybody expecting the same vehicle will be grossly disappointed. Not that it may not be a great car (if actually planned which I doubt) but it will not be what people remember and lust after.

[BDKane01]

Leave it alone, Honda.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Emissions and fuel economy regulations pretty much put the kibosh on that sort of thing...

I used to think that, but now I'm pretty sure that's BS. It was 15+ years ago when Honda came out with the 9000 rpm redline S2000. Who else had high revving engines back then (8000+) - next to nobody.

Nowadays, you can find 8000+ redline engines all over the place in high end sports cars. Proof that such engines can still meet today's regs.

[Leonardo]

The song of Vtec at 9000! Loved My ap1...

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I used to think that, but now I'm pretty sure that's BS. It was 15+ years ago when Honda came out with the 9000 rpm redline S2000. Who else had high revving engines back then (8000+) - next to nobody.

Nowadays, you can find 8000+ redline engines all over the place in high end sports cars. Proof that such engines can still meet today's regs.

Well, the 2zz-ge did rev up to some 8300rpm...
And even the E46 M3 revved up to 8000rpm.

There were a few... But I think the costs of doing R&D to justify such redlines and still comply with emissions/fuel economy standards is a game of diminishing returns. Perhaps the hypercar makers can get around it due to lower volumes (maybe different regulations for lower production numbers) or make up for it by baking it into a much larger price tag?

Maybe someone with knowledge of that side of the industry can pipe up...
As for me, I'd love to own or at least drive a S2k at some point in my life...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I used to think that, but now I'm pretty sure that's BS. It was 15+ years ago when Honda came out with the 9000 rpm redline S2000. Who else had high revving engines back then (8000+) - next to nobody.

Nowadays, you can find 8000+ redline engines all over the place in high end sports cars. Proof that such engines can still meet today's regs.

Exactly, there is no real reason why 8000 or 9000 rpm is necessarily worse for regulatory compliance, it's just a matter of coughing up some more money, but that's how it always was. The F20C is not a cheap engine.

People should stop bashing cars that don't exist yet, give them a chance to fulfill our dreams. The real harm is everyone saying "oh my god it's a hybrid it must be a POS" or "give me back my [insert archaic tech here], nothing can replace it!", because in almost every case a good engineering solution using new technology can make everything better. Everyone thought electric steering sucked, until the reviewers couldn't even make up a psychological effect excuse for "it just feels unnatural" when they drove the GT3.

Until internal combustion engines are outlawed, we'll get our fun cars to drive.

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Well, the 2zz-ge did rev up to some 8300rpm...
And even the E46 M3 revved up to 8000rpm.

There were a few... But I think the costs of doing R&D to justify such redlines and still comply with emissions/fuel economy standards is a game of diminishing returns. Perhaps the hypercar makers can get around it due to lower volumes (maybe different regulations for lower production numbers) or make up for it by baking it into a much larger price tag?

The 2ZZ was supposedly capable of 8500rpm. In reality, it needs a few uprated parts for that.

Hypercar makers have to comply with emissions all the same. That 8700rpm VW group V10? Yup. 9000+rpm 918 and LaFerrari? Yup.

People mix fuel economy and emissions together. Bad fuel economy = you get hit with gas guzzler tax. Bad emissions = you don't get to sell the car.

The problem is that soon the gas guzzler tax is going to become a massive penalty that even rich people can't ignore. We should embrace that as an opportunity to end the days where you sit in traffic with a ginormous engine slurping down the gas tank leaving you with less gas to have fun with. The one time I browsed FerrariChat for a bit, the owners were complaining that they had to refuel almost as often as a motorcycle...where's the fun in that?

[humdizzle]

Well they completely F'd up the NSX so I have already lost hope lol.

[Zaku]

Honda Designed in America seems to be such a hit or miss.
Example of a Hit is the New Civic, the Sample of a Miss is the New NSX, and mostly anything Acura. The new Precision concept and the cars that will have that look after wards are just ugly. I missed the days when everything Luxury wasn't some Gaping ugly grill. The Germans pull it off well but I can't say for Acura and Lexus.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The 2ZZ was supposedly capable of 8500rpm. In reality, it needs a few uprated parts for that.

The humble Toyota Matrix had 8,350rpm redline - although the Celica oddly had some versions with a sub-8k rpm rev limiter. I think the Elise revved to 8,500rpm (used to hang around the 7th gen Celica boards a decade ago).
Not sure how longevity is, but it seems the Toyota versions ran into less problems than the ones used in the Lotus Elise...

I'd like to think that with the progress in technology, we could some day see a resurgence of fun-to-drive, revvy cars that deliver fantastic fuel economy and meet emissions regulations. But the change in the consumer might prevent that, as people become less interested in driving as a source of enjoyment (instead of a necessity to get from A-to-B).

[DarkSunrise]

Isn't the general issue with high revving engines that stiffer valve springs hurt fuel economy?

And the specific issue with the Honda K series was they couldn't feasibly get it to meet rising global emissions standards.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by reni

If Honda makes another sports car it will by hybrid, heavy, and ugly. If you want an s2000, just buy an s2000; I really doubt Honda will ever go back to making cars like that.

Have you been under a rock?



And they still turn out worthwhile Type-R's for Europe and Asia, latest Civic R is supposedly good for ~7:50 around the burgerking (even if they cheated on tires it's still massively quick) and rumor is we'll get the next one.
http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/h...gt/first-drive

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng-for-feature

Honda is still capable of making cars like that, just unwilling to take the loss in order to make it 'successful' in the public eye. Doesn't make the situation better, but hope is not lost.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Have you been under a rock?



And they still turn out worthwhile Type-R's for Europe and Asia, latest Civic R is supposedly good for ~7:50 around the burgerking (even if they cheated on tires it's still massively quick) and rumor is we'll get the next one.
http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/h...gt/first-drive

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng-for-feature

Honda is still capable of making cars like that, just unwilling to take the loss in order to make it 'successful' in the public eye. Doesn't make the situation better, but hope is not lost.

Loads of nice cars in other markets around the world. Just not over here.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Honda Designed in America seems to be such a hit or miss.
Example of a Hit is the New Civic, the Sample of a Miss is the New NSX, and mostly anything Acura. The new Precision concept and the cars that will have that look after wards are just ugly. I missed the days when everything Luxury wasn't some Gaping ugly grill. The Germans pull it off well but I can't say for Acura and Lexus.

I don't know anything about the actual specs of the new civic but I do know I seen them and they look like complete shit.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I don't know anything about the actual specs of the new civic but I do know I seen them and they look like complete shit.

Hey understandable style is a subjective subject, Dont disagree or agree with ya. Still can't deny that it's good. It's North America car of the year they're selling so many of them because the competition aren't even up to par, it's a sale success for Honda, in the appliance category anyways.

Fine by me, give em more money to hopefully not make the their new sports car crap. Hopefully money not go to fund things like another CUV.