So how many have to die before they...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

In all seriousness. I believe they are allowed because they expect all of the participants to use common sense and be cautious. Unfortunately, in 'Mureca, that's never the case but we all do seem to have hind-sight.

To be fair, this is not an exclusively US activity. in fact, I believe the Nurburgring doesn't even require a helmet on "tourist days".

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

To be fair, this is not an exclusively US activity. in fact, I believe the Nurburgring doesn't even require a helmet on "tourist days".

Yeah but the Nurburgring is quite an anomaly for various reasons. Technically, at least until the recent acquisition, it was actually part of the public road system in Germany. And a lot of standard road rules actually apply. You don't need to wear a helmet but they won't stop you from doing so. And the typical way we drive during HPDE events in the US and Canada (sticking to the racing line and passing cars have to move off line), on the Nurburgring, you stick to the 'right' and cars have to pass on the left, in all cases. So driving around the ring on a tourist day is more or less like driving on a public road with no speed limit.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I think in very general terms, strat61caster covered my thoughts on risk in his last post. I drive a road car in HPDE events. I am and have been mulling over the possibility of converting it to a full track car. I'd certainly feel safer. And I probably will eventually. But the cost of doing so (when I also factor in the cost of a trailer and vehicle to tow the trailer) is a bit prohibitive at the moment. And I think it would be for the vast majority of people who do HPDE events.

So I'm kind of resurrecting this thread in the hopes of getting an estimated answer to my own question.

My wife is buying a new vehicle to replace her Honda CRV. Her new vehicle will have a 5,000-lbs towing capacity. So there's problem number one solved.

I'd like to pick up a light weight, open aluminum trailer at the end of the season and I'm guessing I can find something 1/2 way decent in good condition for around $3,000 ~ $4,000.

So I'm now looking at my FRS and wondering about costs. I don't turn wrenches so I can't do much myself and will have to contract everything out. I realize this is a very open question with a lot of leeway. But for those who have gone through this process, how much should I reasonably expect to spend for:

- stripping the car out (This already starts a big debate as to WHAT needs to go and if I'm satisfied with everything being ripped out or if I want something that even loosely resembles the inside of a car when they're done. In general, I don't really want any loose wires sitting on the floor or gaping holes in the dash or sharp metal edges sticking out of my doors. So I'm looking for something that's done with some care and precision. But I'm not looking for a road car quality interior either. I guess I just don't want to see a car that looks like somebody went to town with a crowbar.

- installing a good quality cage that will pass a NASA or SCCA inspection

- installing 2 halo seats, 6 point harness & detachable wheel

- A decent helmet and HANS device

I'm already running a BBK, B16 coilovers, 9 inch light weight wheels, an oil cooler, header & exhaust along with upgraded studs/pads/fluids/tires. So I'm not really looking to make any changes to the car itself aside from safety.

So how much should I budget? What's the minimum I should calculate? What should I reasonably expect to pay from start to finish?

(Living in the North East)

[ZionsWrath]

I don't have an answer to your question but everything I read about building a track only car is that it's cheaper to buy one that is already built. But I understand there is an attachment to one's specific vehicle.

Consider looking for built cars before you go cage your current one

[guybo]

People don't realize how much cars have changed and gotten faster over the past few years. With advances in computer systems, better production methods and requirements by the gov'mt (esp in regards to emissions) cars are getting more powerful with smaller engines yet engines are staying big because many people think a V8 is the only way to make a car powerful.

IMHO it's ridiculous that relatively cheap 400+ HP cars can be driven off the lot when just a few years ago, that was racecar territory. I was looking into cars recently (I got the FR-S!) and decided that 430 HP for a V8 SS was too much car for me. I have no business driving a 450 HP car! My wife has a V6 RS with 312 HP and that's plenty. The 4 banger FR-S is a little underpowered IMHo but who cares? All that power is only going to get me in trouble anyway. I'd rather have fun with my little car that go faster and faster with a bigger car.

Like the OP said- it wasn't so long ago that 200 HP was a fairly powerful car and more than enough for a track day. People have not changed but cars have so how is it now that 200 HP on the track isn't enough?

[ZionsWrath]

People dont like giving point bys

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I don't have an answer to your question but everything I read about building a track only car is that it's cheaper to buy one that is already built. But I understand there is an attachment to one's specific vehicle.

Consider looking for built cars before you go cage your current one

Yeah, that's not really an option for me. I've kind of struggled for the last year knowing I wouldn't be able to drive the FRS on the road anymore but I think it makes sense. And I've already but way too much money into the car to abandon it.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

So I'm kind of resurrecting this thread in the hopes of getting an estimated answer to my own question.

My wife is buying a new vehicle to replace her Honda CRV. Her new vehicle will have a 5,000-lbs towing capacity. So there's problem number one solved.

I'd like to pick up a light weight, open aluminum trailer at the end of the season and I'm guessing I can find something 1/2 way decent in good condition for around $3,000 ~ $4,000.

So I'm now looking at my FRS and wondering about costs. I don't turn wrenches so I can't do much myself and will have to contract everything out. I realize this is a very open question with a lot of leeway. But for those who have gone through this process, how much should I reasonably expect to spend for:

- stripping the car out (This already starts a big debate as to WHAT needs to go and if I'm satisfied with everything being ripped out or if I want something that even loosely resembles the inside of a car when they're done. In general, I don't really want any loose wires sitting on the floor or gaping holes in the dash or sharp metal edges sticking out of my doors. So I'm looking for something that's done with some care and precision. But I'm not looking for a road car quality interior either. I guess I just don't want to see a car that looks like somebody went to town with a crowbar.

- installing a good quality cage that will pass a NASA or SCCA inspection

- installing 2 halo seats, 6 point harness & detachable wheel

- A decent helmet and HANS device

I'm already running a BBK, B16 coilovers, 9 inch light weight wheels, an oil cooler, header & exhaust along with upgraded studs/pads/fluids/tires. So I'm not really looking to make any changes to the car itself aside from safety.

So how much should I budget? What's the minimum I should calculate? What should I reasonably expect to pay from start to finish?

(Living in the North East)

When looking for trailers, aluminum trailers all seemed to be over $4k used, new $5-6k. They all were around 1400lbs. So, you'll be very close to the limit of the towing capacity. Not a major deal, unless you plan to haul lots of extra stuff.

Depending on "who you know" I've seen cages priced from $2500-$6k depending on the installer, options, and if they were painted or not.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I don't have an answer to your question but everything I read about building a track only car is that it's cheaper to buy one that is already built. But I understand there is an attachment to one's specific vehicle.

Consider looking for built cars before you go cage your current one

For every person that buys a car already built there is one person building a car. The built cars don't spring up out of nowhere.

[Lynxis]

Just want to add my 2 cents. Like some others on here, I've reached an awkward point where my driving is too fast for my experience level. I think it's ego but I don't really want to call it that. I associate ego at the track with not letting faster people pass which isn't me but I think it's still egotistical to want to keep pushing myself to get faster and faster to the detriment of personal safety.

On the last session of the last track day I attended, I had an unrelated passenger with me who just wanted to ride with someone quick. With him in the car, I was pushing my limits and made a mistake at one point and had a very scary off-track excursion with my car hurtling sideways through the dirt towards a tire barrier at 75mph. I only remember thinking to myself to not let go of the wheel and to hit the gas. Somehow, it helped because I managed to maneuver the car to avoid the tire barrier and land back on track safely. If contact was made, it would have certainly destroyed my car and possibly severely injured myself and/or my passenger. I shudder to think of what would happen if my passenger was hurt.

At the time it happened, I didn't think much of it but the more time passes, the more I think about it and I realize it was plain irresponsible of me to be pushing that hard in the first place much less with a passenger. Realizing this, I've decided to pass on all motorsports events while I sort out what I want to do.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

When looking for trailers, aluminum trailers all seemed to be over $4k used, new $5-6k. They all were around 1400lbs. So, you'll be very close to the limit of the towing capacity. Not a major deal, unless you plan to haul lots of extra stuff.

Depending on "who you know" I've seen cages priced from $2500-$6k depending on the installer, options, and if they were painted or not.

I think in general, much like convertible road cars, the going rate of used trailers depends entirely on the time of year. Right now you'd pay a premium. At the end of the season, when a lot of people are upgrading or dumping them, the market gets a bit saturated and prices come down as people want to off load them quickly, rather than storing them for the winter. But of course, if you're looking for a deal, I guess you have to be willing to drive a distance to buy one, if you're so inclined. But I was figuring roughly about $4k so I guess I'm relatively close to target.

$2.5K~$6K is a wide range but it at least gives me some idea. Thanks!

[OkieSnuffBox]

Depends on how often, long and where you'll be towing.

We took my buddies Miata from Tulsa to Raceway Park at the Midlands last month. He tows using an '03 F250 diesel. Strong headwinds on the way home meant we couldn't go faster than 50 (we were doing 85+ a few days before) and the truck couldn't maintain that in overdrive (we were towing an enclosed trailer).

Had we been towing in something at the limit of what the truck could do, like what's being proposed? We would have just had to pull over to a gas station for hours and wait it out.

I now understand the "big boy truck" for towing mentality.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I think in general, much like convertible road cars, the going rate of used trailers depends entirely on the time of year. Right now you'd pay a premium. At the end of the season, when a lot of people are upgrading or dumping them, the market gets a bit saturated and prices come down as people want to off load them quickly, rather than storing them for the winter. But of course, if you're looking for a deal, I guess you have to be willing to drive a distance to buy one, if you're so inclined. But I was figuring roughly about $4k so I guess I'm relatively close to target.

$2.5K~$6K is a wide range but it at least gives me some idea. Thanks!

I looked for 2 years for a good used trailer, the local mart is that trailers 1-5 years old sell for 85-90%ish of a new unit, and barely used ones seem to sell for newish pricing. Trailer market stayed steady all winter(Late Oct-April).


As for cages, labor is the big thing.

• If you are planning to just leave the car gutted the cage will be a bit cheaper vs if you want a full interior car with a cage.
• Can you remove all the interior yourself.
• Can you paint the cage yourself vs paying for it to be done.
• I would imagine if you strip the surface where welding would be done that can also save a bit of money.
• Then, cage design comes into play. NASCAR vs X bars, 2 Nascar bars, how many attachments points, extra bars, modded floor pan/seat mounting, etc.,

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Depends on how often, long and where you'll be towing.

We took my buddies Miata from Tulsa to Raceway Park at the Midlands last month. He tows using an '03 F250 diesel. Strong headwinds on the way home...

I now understand the "big boy truck" for towing mentality.

Well, not having a tow vehicle at all was one of the biggest obstacles I faced. But it was either tow with a new unibody SUV which my wife will use as her daily, or purchase yet a 4th vehicle JUST for towing. And I just didn't want to deal with the potential reliability issues with something older and well worn or the space issues of where to keep it. Not to mention the cost of insuring it & maintaining it. Besides, once you move up to 7,000-lbs or even 10,000-lbs capacity, nothing really comes "cheap" if it's in good condition.

This year I'll be as far north as Mont-Tremblant Quebec Canada and as far south as Road Atlanta. And I'll be driving my FRS. Once I have the trailer I'll probably just do some test pulls to see how things go before I start stripping the car.

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

I looked for 2 years for a good used trailer, the local mart is that trailers 1-5 years old sell for 85-90%ish of a new unit, and barely used ones seem to sell for newish pricing. Trailer market stayed steady all winter(Late Oct-April).


As for cages, labor is the big thing.

• If you are planning to just leave the car gutted the cage will be a bit cheaper vs if you want a full interior car with a cage.
• Can you remove all the interior yourself.
• Can you paint the cage yourself vs paying for it to be done.
• I would imagine if you strip the surface where welding would be done that can also save a bit of money.
• Then, cage design comes into play. NASCAR vs X bars, 2 Nascar bars, how many attachments points, extra bars, modded floor pan/seat mounting, etc.,

Interesting. Well, I will admit that's contrary to what I've been told (used vs new prices) but I also haven't even really started looking in earnest and likely won't until the early fall. I've just been going from word of mouth in the paddock.

Thanks for the tips. All things to consider.