More Horsepower!

[guybo]

Originally Posted by Doubletap

I'd rather have more torque. The HP on this car is fine.

HP sells cars, torque wins races.

I'm looking forward to strapping a turbo on this thing one day once it's paid off and the warranties are up. Then the fun begins.

I think "enough" is under 11 lbs/HP, so that'd be about 250 HP for this car. It's enough because at 11lbs/HP female passengers squeal when I stomp the loud pedal. The torque needs to be up here too at 250+ lb-ft. This car is just a wee bit too sackless- but that just means we have something to work towards!

[SquadRon]

Yellow means go in this car

[Mim]

When talking about whether the car has enough power I think its important to understand the application. What did you buy the car for and intend to do with it going forward?

Most of my commute involves 60, 50 and even 40kph zones. I came from a string of GM V8's that would only need the lightest brush of the accelerator to hit those speed limits, which became tiring.

Like most others, I was seeking a fun daily driver. More specifically though, a daily driver that could allow me to still have fun at lower speeds so... in came the twins!

Here was a car I could wind out in low gears and still be doing legal speeds, but also had amazing handling. After owning the car for a little while though (and after much reading up on our site) I started to ponder whether it had enough power. I started to really break down the car's performance into what was good and what I could improve.

Even if I didn't increase the power level, what could I do to the car to help maximise what power it had?

In came the 4.556 final drive ratio and the aluminium drive shaft. The effect of that? A more sensitive throttle response and a little less slack in the drive train. Possibly from the one piece drive shaft and its 50% weight shedding over stock. Something I did not foresee with the change, was improving access to higher gears, which really made the car more relaxing to drive. Keeping in mind I only drive in sports mode, this mod let me pick a higher gear (more often) across all the speed zones I travelled resulting in a more relaxed drive. I had power sooner and (unlike prior) rarely needed to drop a gear to speed up more enthusiastically.

That was pretty transformative and seemed just enough to keep me happy for a good while. Then came the handling and though I originally researched new coilovers I also turned my eye to bracing, which seemed both cheaper and something I could easily fit myself with minimal fuss. Wham! A dramatic improvement to handling with the addition of a strut bar and some TRD door stabilisers. The ride actually settled down a notch or two. Possibly because the chassis was stiffer so the suspension could do its thing more efficiently.

Now everything feels a little more immediate in both acceleration and handling in general.

What I'm trying to put into words here is what if you could change and tweak your car in a way that makes it feel faster, but which does not involve massive increases of power?

Another excellent mod is a header and tune to nail the torque dip leading to more linier acceleration. If you took all these tweaks, which does not exactly add slabs of power.. wouldn't you be more happy with that power the car had?

If your throttle response, handling, feedback all got dialled to eleven, would you care that your car only had say 220 odd HP after fitting all these mods?

I think this all comes back full circle to understanding the application. What do you need your car to do in the scope of your driving that would make you crave more power?

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Mim

I think this all comes back full circle to understanding the application. What do you need your car to do in the scope of your driving that would make you crave more power?

I think you've already answered your own question. what do you need your car to do in the scope of your driving that would make you make the mods your did and improve handling and the sense that it's a bit faster?

speed limits are irrelevant as just about ANY car can exceed the legal speed limit in the streets given enough time. so, we're not talking about top end or driving faster than the speed limit in the streets. we should also not be talking about handling either, because what are you doing in your daily driving where you NEED better handling? maybe better comfort on long commutes or on potholed city streets - i can see getting adjustable coilovers where you can dial them down for a softer ride. but where would you need a strut bar or bracing in the street?

so, if you ask yourself 'why did i do the mods i did?' to improve throttle response and acceleration, people who tack on more HP are doing it for the same reason; just accomplishing it by a different route.

if you drive somewhere where you need to improve handling, someone else might enjoy more power doing exactly the same thing.

[VTEC]

Originally Posted by mdm

Posts "I need more power" should be cross-checked with the same people's answers to the "How hard do you drive your car" poll.

If the answer wasn't 8 or more, that is if you never went up 7000 rpm, you still haven't ever used the max power you have in the car already.

I wonder if instead of more power we just needed some better sound. Everybody loved the K20 on the RSX Type S and the Civic SI even though it's the same horsepower as the FA20 and even less torque. But the sound it made at high RPM was so addictive that everybody was driving 10/10 all the time. In fact the K20 SI was more popular than the K24 SI even though the K24 is faster and had more torque. The K24 just didn't sound as good.

With the number of people complaining they got smoked by Minivans, they clearly are not driving it the redline. We even got one dude that got smoked by a Toyota Tercel

Anyway I plugged the sound tube on my car and got a N1 exhaust. And I love revving it out to 7400 RPM

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by VTEC

I wonder if instead of more power we just needed some better sound. Everybody loved the K20 on the RSX Type S and the Civic SI even though it's the same horsepower as the FA20 and even less torque. But the sound it made at high RPM was so addictive that everybody was driving 10/10 all the time. In fact the K20 SI was more popular than the K24 SI even though the K24 is faster and had more torque. The K24 just didn't sound as good.

With the number of people complaining they got smoked by Minivans, they clearly are not driving it the redline. We even got one dude that got smoked by a Toyota Tercel

Anyway I plugged the sound tube on my car and got a N1 exhaust. And I love revving it out to 7400 RPM

Another reason people loved the K20 was because of how well it responded to basic mods. The FA20 isn't far behind (especially on E85), but the K20 was amazing for modding.

I do agree with you on the sound aspect though. Our cars sound meh stock, so not much incentive to wind it out. Toyota/Subaru should have spent a little more time making it sound better.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Another reason people loved the K20 was because of how well it responded to basic mods. The FA20 isn't far behind (especially on E85), but the K20 was amazing for modding.

I do agree with you on the sound aspect though. Our cars sound meh stock, so not much incentive to wind it out. Toyota/Subaru should have spent a little more time making it sound better.

Sound is so subjective though. For every person that wants it louder there are probably several that don't. Just look on here at the number of people that have complaining neighbors and some are only on TRD cat backs. A "better sounding" (I read as louder) exhaust is just not for everybody.


However...


When I test drove the stock version the lack of any true exhaust note almost turned me off. Then they started my car with the TRD on it in the showroom!


And...


I despise the sound of 4 cylinder Honda exhausts (see my subjective comment above) and do not care what engine they have or what was done to them. They all sound like tinny, whiny crap to my ear.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Sound is so subjective though. For every person that wants it louder there are probably several that don't. Just look on here at the number of people that have complaining neighbors and some are only on TRD cat backs. A "better sounding" (I read as louder) exhaust is just not for everybody.


However...


When I test drove the stock version the lack of any true exhaust note almost turned me off. Then they started my car with the TRD on it in the showroom!


And...


I despise the sound of 4 cylinder Honda exhausts (see my subjective comment above) and do not care what engine they have or what was done to them. They all sound like tinny, whiny crap to my ear.

Hmm yeah all good points, especially about sound being subjective. The interesting thing about the K series was the exhaust note wasn't that great either. It was the intake/engine noise that sounded great. So while the car sounded anemic outside, it actually sounded pretty good in the cabin. If you haven't driven a Honda K series (or even F series) you should give it a try. The stock intake/engine note from inside might surprise you.

I actually think that's what Toyota/Subaru was going for with the FA20 intake piping into the cabin. Unfortunately it didn't end up as good sounding as the K series IMO

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Hmm yeah all good points, especially about sound being subjective. The interesting thing about the K series was the exhaust note wasn't that great either. It was the intake/engine noise that sounded great. So the car while sounding anemic outside, sounded pretty good in the cabin. If you haven't driven a Honda K series (or even F series) you should give it a try. The stock intake/engine note from inside might surprise you.

I actually think that's what Toyota/Subaru was going for with the FA20 intake piping into the cabin. Unfortunately it didn't end up as good sounding as the K series IMO

Only have ever heard them from the outside so ya I could be swayed if they sound different inside.


The ONLY Honda I have ever drove in my life had horrible sound in or outside.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Only have ever heard them from the outside so ya I could be swayed if they sound different inside.


The ONLY Honda I have ever drove in my life had horrible sound in or outside.

Haha yeah I can see how driving that might color your perceptions

I also meant to add, I'm not a fan of aftermarket exhausts on Hondas either. I actually find most exhausts on 4 cyl cars pretty annoying. Only exceptions are the Fiat 500 abarth (kind of) and 4-cyl UEL boxers (WRX/STI, 718 Cayman/Boxster, etc.)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Haha yeah I can see how driving that might color your perceptions

Yep. In all it's 60HP and 0 to 60 in an afternoon glory!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep. In all it's 60HP and 0 to 60 in an afternoon glory!

BS no way that thing did 60 mph!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

BS no way that thing did 60 mph!

Eventually. Those 12 inch wheels were spinning like a sonofabitch though.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I despise the sound of 4 cylinder Honda exhausts (see my subjective comment above) and do not care what engine they have or what was done to them. They all sound like tinny, whiny crap to my ear.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViAM7AHheJg"]Honda S800 9000rpm - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMSB5rIHWOY"]Honda S800 RSC (1968) @ Twin Ring Motegi , 11 July 2012 - YouTube[/ame]