another coilover question

[racecarshots]

I am on 17x8's and PSS's too, haha. I just don't want anything as stiff as my dad's Tarmac 2's. I've had lots of slammed/lowered cars, i know what I'm getting into, haha. Just so sick of staring at my 4x4 ride height haha.

[gtslow]

For $1,000 just pick the color you like the best.

[MeisterR]

Originally Posted by gtslow

For $1,000 just pick the color you like the best.

I would say that is not true, especially when there are engineered suspension available at that price.

I would say you got to pick the right suspension for your need.
If you want good fast road suspension, it isn't going to be auto-corss focused.
If you want to slam the car, it won't ride very well.

Got to find a suspension that suit your need.
Not all sub $1000 coilovers are rubbish you know.

Jerrick

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ginosayr

What do you mean by it can go anytime? Will it be like a serious accident if it does? Curious cause I'm running RSR Superdowns on mine for a year now but I've had no issues yet. How do you think the stock suspension will last with lowered springs?

RSR Superdowns here as well. Over 60K miles in a year and a half and zero issues. Can it go any time? Sure. That does not mean it will go. A lot of the risk is what you are doing with the car. If just a street driven DD then the struts will probably last as long as anything else. If tracking or canyon carving all the time the extra stress would certainly blow the OEM struts out faster. Mind you it can also blow out some expensive coil overs so you could be no further ahead.

[Tokay444]

All sub $1000 coilovers are rubbish.
You need a bigger budget, or else buy tires instead.

[gtslow]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

RSR Superdowns here as well. Over 60K miles in a year and a half and zero issues. Can it go any time? Sure. That does not mean it will go. A lot of the risk is what you are doing with the car. If just a street driven DD then the struts will probably last as long as anything else. If tracking or canyon carving all the time the extra stress would certainly blow the OEM struts out faster. Mind you it can also blow out some expensive coil overs so you could be no further ahead.

I think people don't realize that dampers are a wear item and even if they buy coilovers those dampers will eventually (and in some cases quickly) blow and need to be serviced. The great thing about OEM style dampers is you can order the number that you need to replace and replace only that unit. Depending upon the manufacturer, if one of the dampers in your coilovers blow you need to send them off to be rebuilt. That means your car is missing a critical piece of suspension and can't be driven how you want to drive it.

Some manufacturers such as Tein offer replacement inserts (Flex Z). This effectively makes the insert non-rebuildable, but they can send you a new insert so you are back on the road quickly.

At the $1000 price point the OP is posting about I think you have 2 advantages over a stock damper based suspension system:

1. More clearance for wheels and tires
2. You have ride height control.


You can have excellent performing suspension with springs and good dampers (koni/bilstein/etc). If you need camber adjustment you can add camber plates and/or bolts.

At $1000 price point I would (with no worry about autocross classes) just buy Springs, Koni yellows, and crash/camber bolts. If you want to daily drive the car with little to no track time I doubt you need more camber than the -1.0-1.5 you can get out of bolts.

If you must buy coilovers in the $1000 price range you will probably end up with mismatched dampers, lots of pretty colors, awesome noises when you turn your steering wheels, and possible kidney damage from the jarring you get over every bump.
Good luck

[gtslow]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

All sub $1000 coilovers are rubbish.
You need a bigger budget, or else buy tires instead.

I think the ST suspension has a pretty good recommendation, but it doesn't include camber plates. For a street driven setup the Tein Flex Z also looks great (has decent reviews from CSG who is a trusted vendor on the forum).

Again, you do get shiny colors with all the $1000 coilovers and that can't be overlooked.

[Tokay444]

Garbage in is garbage out.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by gtslow

I think the ST suspension has a pretty good recommendation, but it doesn't include camber plates. For a street driven setup the Tein Flex Z also looks great (has decent reviews from CSG who is a trusted vendor on the forum).

Again, you do get shiny colors with all the $1000 coilovers and that can't be overlooked.

ST Suspension (owned by KW) makes different models. So you have to differentiate and be more specific when mentioning ST.

The sub 1000$ set (ST X) you are referring to is not a KW damper, but AFAIK a damper from AL-KO. If that's good or bad I don't know. It's a damper manufacturer that makes OEM dampers. Same is true for KW V1 (they are ST Xs but with stainless steel cylinder bodies).

The XTA are KW in-house produced dampers, same as V3 and Clubsport. Like the other STs the XTA cylinder body is galvanised (don't get these if you drive on salted roads in the winter).

The XTAs are awesome for the price. If you can live without the stainless steel cylinder bodies and don't need separate compression/rebound adjustability, I think they are better than KW V3 due to the higher front spring rate (where it matters due to the McPherson strut).

If you need separate rebound/compression go directly to the Clubsport (V3 with higher spring rates and camber mounts). Or at that price range another brand. The V3s are pointless imho, they are not really street and not really track.

[B-R-Z]

I think I'm leaning towards Tein Flex Z's if I decide to upgrade at all. I'm fairly content with my eibach prokit

[Tokay444]

You will get more performance out of $1000 worth of tires than $1000 worth of coilovers.

[B-R-Z]

I am on MPSS's, so are you suggesting I buy another set to stare at until I put them on?

[MeisterR]

Looking at this I am just interested in the general community view.
Are suspension judge on price or performance?

When people are upgrading suspension, what help you decide what is good or not?
I am not picking on anyone, but I just see general statement that I would like to see reason behind them.

Originally Posted by Tokay444

All sub $1000 coilovers are rubbish.
You need a bigger budget, or else buy tires instead.

Why all sub $1000 coilovers are rubbish?
Any reason to say so? Why?

I am just interested in understanding why no one can build a good performance coilovers at the sub $1000 price in your view.

Originally Posted by gtslow

If you must buy coilovers in the $1000 price range you will probably end up with mismatched dampers, lots of pretty colors, awesome noises when you turn your steering wheels, and possible kidney damage from the jarring you get over every bump.
Good luck

Coilovers don't have to be uncomfortable, if you design the damper valving to make sure the cracking pressure of the compression curve are not too high, it will ride over bumps nicely.
This mean you CAN have a comfortable ride on a set of coilovers, it is pretty simple to achieve.

Springs rate tends be a bit stiffer with coilovers, but if you use a sensible rate designed for fast road use (Keeping wheel frequency 2.0Hz or below), your car will ride nicely also.
In the FR-S / BRZ, that works out to be front 5kg/mm, rear 4kg/mm in case anyone want to know, anything higher will get out of this range.


Noise when you turn the steering wheels are from coil binding.
A simple roller bearing somewhere located on the spring cap / surfaces will allow the springs to spin and prevent this noise.

While I cannot say for all coilovers, we never had a mismatch problem with ours when we spot check them.
Mono-tube dampers are one of the most repeatable damper design, as all the damping force happens via the piston and the bleed adjuster.
If you talk about matching damping, I would say you have a higher chance of getting greater mismatch when using a twin-tube damper as deviation on the piston or the base valve would lead to deviation in damping force.


Again, not picking on anyone.
I just see concerns members have posted up and I don't see why those concern cannot be solved by a suspension that cost under $1000.

Jerrick

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

You will get more performance out of $1000 worth of tires than $1000 worth of coilovers.

Clearly you are missinformed

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...highlight=flex