Ace Header 4-2-1 CS400 Custom BRZEdit Tune Dyno Results

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CHEQUERED

im actually quite surprised at the comments in this thread, its obvious its run on an ultra accurate hub dyno not a inertia masked roller dyno.

We changed tuning from a roller dyno for this precise reason (20 years of tuning experience showed we needed something different for product and race engine development) the larger the roller the more inertia it carries... the more inertia it carries the less accurately it actually records the natural tendencies of an engine (if you think a nice smooth curve is natural on a small displacement NA engine your sorely mistaken, run up a motorbike and you will be mortified). A dyno jet (mainline and Dyno dynamics rollers) smooths out the curve so much that for tuning small na engines properly its often quite useless. We could have bought 3 roller dynos for the price of our hub dyno but the tuning accuracy it afford us is not available in another package.

I can on a small output engine like the fa20 turn on the lights mid run and get a dip from the alternator draw mid run, i can also pick very minute timing changes mid way through a curve, something we could never do on a roller dyno. This purple run also shows a dip from the cooling fans engaging which was done to check mixture variance under voltage change.

This same car run up on a dyno dynamics, mainline or dynojet will have table flat torque and pretty much a flat 45 degree power pull with a faint roll off up top.

The purple loop that seems to be perplexing everyone is the result of loading the car fully at 1500 in top gear and starting a heavy ramp rate pull which accentuates the peaks and troughs, such a small output engine will always struggle to pull cleanly from such low rpm (try it on the road starting off from the lights in 5th gear). We do a LOT of circuit cars so we comprehensively tune every part of the map, this was just one run in a larger process. Normally we don't generally provide this heavy load run to the customer but henry is quite the enthusiast so we gave him more than just the before and after plots. Starting at 2000rpm or doing a soft start ramp stops this looping behaviour as seen in the other plots..

i hope this gives a bit more insight into the dyno plots and the behaviour differences between hub and roller.

If anyone would like to chat further im happy to answer any questions on info@chequeredtuning.com

We start our pulls pretty low... (This is a A/350 on ACN91 and Flex E70)

[CHEQUERED]

yeah, the your dyno operator used 4th which helps "soften the curve" and stops the low end "loop", and i i can tell that its not a 16sec pull like the purple one posted, more like a 9-10sec, the hump at 5k is a tell tale.

The lower the power on a long pull (higher gears) the larger the peaks and troughs.

That dyno is also in an odd mode looking at the results, std cars pull 140 to 145hp all day everyday on all dynos regardless of brand here. The sheet you posted at 165hp is quite a way off what we see here std.

this perrin one looks to be in the same mode (it is very old firmware by the looks too)

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by CHEQUERED

im actually quite surprised at the comments in this thread, its obvious its run on an ultra accurate hub dyno not a inertia masked roller dyno.

We changed tuning from a roller dyno for this precise reason (20 years of tuning experience showed we needed something different for product and race engine development) the larger the roller the more inertia it carries... the more inertia it carries the less accurately it actually records the natural tendencies of an engine (if you think a nice smooth curve is natural on a small displacement NA engine your sorely mistaken, run up a motorbike and you will be mortified). A dyno jet (mainline and Dyno dynamics rollers) smooths out the curve so much that for tuning small na engines properly its often quite useless. We could have bought 3 roller dynos for the price of our hub dyno but the tuning accuracy it afford us is not available in another package.

I can, on a small output engine like the fa20 turn on the lights mid run and get a dip from the alternator draw mid run, i can also pick very minute timing changes mid way through a curve, something we could never do on a roller dyno. This purple run also shows a dip from the cooling fans engaging which was done to check mixture variance under voltage change.

This same car run up on a dyno dynamics, mainline or dynojet will have table flat torque and pretty much a flat 45 degree power pull with a faint roll off up top.

The purple loop that seems to be perplexing everyone is the result of loading the car fully at 1500 in 5th gear and starting a heavy ramp rate pull which accentuates the peaks and troughs, such a small output engine will always struggle to pull cleanly from such low rpm (try it on the road starting off from the lights in 5th gear). We do a LOT of circuit cars so we comprehensively tune every part of the map, this was just one run in a larger process. Normally we don't generally provide this heavy load run to the customer but Harry is quite the enthusiast so we gave him more than just the before and after plots. Starting at 2000rpm or doing a soft start ramp stops this looping behaviour as seen in the other plots..

i hope this gives a bit more insight into the dyno plots and the behaviour differences between hub and roller.

If anyone would like to chat further im happy to answer any questions on info@chequeredtuning.com

You've got me wanting to ship the car to Australia for a tune now.

[xwd]

I think there is some kind of Aussie dyno coefficient that reads 15-20% lower than US dynos, even for the same make/model of dyno. It's the same story with WRX/STis as well, their dynos almost always read lower than ours.

[steve99]

yep queensland dynos
autos about 5 kw less than manuals
stock car about 105-110kw
headers tune exhaust on petrol arround 120-125kw
headers tune exhaust on E85 arround 135-140kw

bigger jump between our petrol and e85 as our 98 ron is not as good as usa 93 aki

for some reason some new south wales dynos seem to be calibrated higher by 10% or so

[michiale]

I had my CS400 installed and tuned last night by IXA Battle Garage in Sydney. Other mods include Greedy intake snorkel, drop in filter , HKS dual Res front pipe and Fujitsubo Authorise R Cat back. I am very impressed so far, it puts a smile on your face.

My initial thoughts: The pull down low starts around 3k and picks up after 4 pulling hard to around 6-6.5. The power definitely plateaus after 6 as expected from these headers. The headers and tune make a huge difference to the torque delivery and it now breaks traction where it once would not.

Comparing this to the tuners BRZ with an Ace 250B (and other supporting mods) you really notice the difference in torque and the spread of power. The 250B just keeps on pulling up high where the CS400 drops off.

Thanks to the Guys at IXA Battle Garage, Hawk77FT and Ace. Look forward to getting out for more of a drive and a dyno run to compare to other setups.

[CHEQUERED]

Originally Posted by michiale

I had my CS400 installed and tuned last night by IXA Battle Garage in Sydney. Other mods include Greedy intake snorkel, drop in filter , HKS dual Res front pipe and Fujitsubo Authorise R Cat back. I am very impressed so far, it puts a smile on your face.

My initial thoughts: The pull down low starts around 3k and picks up after 4 pulling hard to around 6-6.5. The power definitely plateaus after 6 as expected from these headers. The headers and tune make a huge difference to the torque delivery and it now breaks traction where it once would not.

Comparing this to the tuners BRZ with an Ace 250B (and other supporting mods) you really notice the difference in torque and the spread of power. The 250B just keeps on pulling up high where the CS400 drops off.

Thanks to the Guys at IXA Battle Garage, Hawk77FT and Ace. Look forward to getting out for more of a drive and a dyno run to compare to other setups.

Dont worry to much about the final figure, the gain from before and after is the most important thing.

[CHEQUERED]

Originally Posted by xwd

I think there is some kind of Aussie dyno coefficient that reads 15-20% lower than US dynos, even for the same make/model of dyno. It's the same story with WRX/STis as well, their dynos almost always read lower than ours.

its really a metric imperial thing, rest of the world is pretty much standardised, we used to do a lot of crate engine stuff and most of the world was pretty close but engines from the US had horses stolen on the boat or aircraft during shipping :P you guys need to find new shipping agents :P

My new engine lost 80 or more on the flight over... im trying to win them back with our cnc itbs.

[WRBrzRX]

haha shots fired

good info

[jasonojordan]

Thanks for chiming in and clearing things up

[sw20kosh]

@mkivsoopra