Corner Weight Question

[Northwest86]

So you're looking for Dampers to replace the Reds? Why not just get Josh to revalve them the way that you want. To get your corner weights on your car you'll have to go back to stock suspension I'd think and weigh it. Then get the dampers that match the car weight and Spring weights so that they are Critically Damped.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Northwest86

Just a question but why not just use MCA's. They will customise things to your needs and as we've seen with all our track guys. Nobody uses anything else. Things like KW's, Teins, Ohlins etc all get removed off peoples cars to be replaced with them. In World Time Attack I think it was something like 5 out of the top 6 cars had MCA's. In the Bathurst Enduro race recently, most of the top end of the field used them. Why reinvent the wheel when the hard work has been done for you. Josh is out with his 86 at the track every few weeks testing his suspension and custom suspension stuff to help make the 86 track performance better, including some work towards helping put power down better on corner exits. Also he'll be entering it into WTAC this year alongside the Hammerhead S13. (different classes of course) Should be a hell of a car.

Just wondering really.

I don't know if that's a fair statement considering WTAC is local to you :p

I could say nobody runs MCA at Super Lap Battle, and it would be just as accurate and unfair.

That being said, going tried and proven is often the easiest/cost-effective route.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Northwest86

Yep $2800 AUD. Thats what we are running and thats what Josh runs in his car every 2-3 weeks at Lakeside or Queensland Raceway. At Lakeside hes into the 59s which is getting bloody quick for a car that basically has Pads, Tyres, Suspension and an E85 tune with headers.

And mind you the S13 Hammerhead runs Red suspension. They don't even use custom Gold series stuff. For around that 3k mark you can literally buy the suspension used on a Proper Pro Time attack car. There wouldn't be many suspension companies that not only track test their suspension before release, but continue development. In Australia there really is no reason to buy anything else. I do wish though that the top track guys in the USA could try them out. I'd be very interested to hear what they think of them if they could try them.

CSG start being a US MCA dealer. I'd love to see Australian products being sold worldwide.

I would too; I only hear great stuff about MCA. Problem is, shipping and duties... even sending pallets back and forth across the ocean adds a significant amount of cost.

We get asked all the time why Rays wheels cost ~30% more in USD than just taking the Japanese Yen MSRP and converting to USD. Everyone forgets that there is more than just the price of the product involved...

[Northwest86]

It is local but they do usually have pro teams from overseas running here too. These are not limited budget cars though so they have a choice of what they want. And both the MCA car and the Tilton Evo I'd imagine would do very well against anything overseas I'd bet. But when you can have a Suspension Supplier who is nearby and will customise anything the way you want with around 40 years in the suspension industry, then why wouldn't you use that to your advantage.

You should get some MCA's over there. I'd be interested what you'd think of the Reds seeing as you've run some high spec stuff and some midrange gear too. With the Australian Dollar they'd sure be competitive. but the import duties and shipping obviously presents a challenge. Which is also part of the reason why MCA has 90% of the market here. Nothing can compete with the Service, quality and price point.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I am wishing to find out the weight distribution of my car.
I do not want spring height adjustments to influence the corner weight reading. How can I measure the "true" corner weights?

Put on your stock suspension, and measure the corner weights.

Or, make your adjustable dampers identical side to side and measure the corner weights.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Northwest86

It is local but they do usually have pro teams from overseas running here too. These are not limited budget cars though so they have a choice of what they want. But when you can have a Suspension Supplier who is nearby and will customise anything the way you want with around 40 years in the suspension industry, then why wouldn't you use that to your advantage.

You should get some MCA's over there. I'd be interested what you'd think of the Reds seeing as you've run some high spec stuff and some midrange gear too. With the Australian Dollar they'd sure be competitive. but the import duties and shipping obviously presents a challenge. Which is also part of the reason why MCA has 90% of the market here. Nothing can compete with the Service, quality and price point.

I say this all the time, but the valving of the damper is just as important as the quality. Once the quality is up there, it's just valving. Generally speaking, you go with whoever is going to give you the best support locally. For us, Tein and JRZ offer support similar to what MCA offers Australians; Tein and JRZ are both in SoCal. If I were in NorCal, I suspect I'd be running Ohlins, and if I were in the middle of nowhere, Penskes.

But now you have me curious what a single set of MCAs would cost to bring to the states...

Side note, our Laguna Seca time was set on a set of (custom valved) Flex Z...


*edit*

I'm curious as to if the Red and Gold default to an inverted strut for the 86. It looks like MCA's website is under some (re)construction. Can you PM me your contact there?

[Traktor]

Perhaps CSG and the Cootes need to have a chat?!?

[Northwest86]

I'm not sure. A suspension box isn't massive. The US vs Australian dollar would help a bit. At a guess I'd say it'd end up being around $3-400. A business may get much better pricing though.

Book me a flight and I'll bring you mine to borrow.

[Northwest86]

Haha the website has been "under construction" for about 10 years. Its a running inside joke these days. To my knowledge the front are an inverted strut. (don't quote me as I know they've been revised a number of times as he's developed them more) For contact you want Josh Coote. He's reachable on the MCA suspension facebook page and at redblue@mcasuspension.com

I just did a little check at Streetfx (one of our stores) and it seems for 3k AUD (2300ish USD) they can get them to the USA. Not sure on what duties you have to pay.

And the Gold Series is the custom stuff. Usually its for custom setups, Racecars with different suspension setups and largely for Rally Cars. The Nameless Performance Rally BRZ is running MCA Golds to my knowledge.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I know I'm taking this too seriously, but this is bad, left side will always weigh more than right and when getting detailed ignoring that is giving up performance.

Disagree. Once he gets his wizbang suspension on he can adjust ride heights to make this a reality.

Hell, assuming that damping is adjustable, he doesn't even need to get corner weights exactly right. He would be able to adjust damping to suit reality.

And finally, let's be real. We are not talking about a professional racing series here with an open wheel car generating high downforce and everything must be just so down to the nearest pound and dampers get set differently at each corner to suit this weekend's particular track. This is a mass produced vehicle driven by an amateur. Whether the front left gets valved for 720 pounds or 760 pounds doesn't matter that much.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. If they need corner weights get them an answer that is good enough and move on.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Northwest86

I'm not sure. A suspension box isn't massive. The US vs Australian dollar would help a bit. At a guess I'd say it'd end up being around $3-400. A business may get much better pricing though.

Book me a flight and I'll bring you mine to borrow.

The problem is the weight.

Try pricing it out on UPS.com or Fedex.com. It might scare you...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Disagree. Once he gets his wizbang suspension on he can adjust ride heights to make this a reality.

Hell, assuming that damping is adjustable, he doesn't even need to get corner weights exactly right. He would be able to adjust damping to suit reality.

And finally, let's be real. We are not talking about a professional racing series here with an open wheel car generating high downforce and everything must be just so down to the nearest pound and dampers get set differently at each corner to suit this weekend's particular track. This is a mass produced vehicle driven by an amateur. Whether the front left gets valved for 720 pounds or 760 pounds doesn't matter that much.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. If they need corner weights get them an answer that is good enough and move on.

If I tried to balance the corner weights left to right via ride height, each corner of my car would probably be ~1/2" different height from the other.

That Vorshlag corner weight on a stock car is the closest to balanced I've ever seen on an 86 to my memory, but then again, no driver in that car.

To the rest of your post I completely agree, it's in the noise and I think I took your original post the wrong way, hadn't finished my coffee yet. I would also wing an average at it, ask that they mark the dampers that come out stiffer so they head to the left side of the car.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Traktor

Perhaps CSG and the Cootes need to have a chat?!?

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I'm 100% certain Cootes knows far more than I do. Ultimately, I'm a driver, and while I can describe what I like and dislike about the behavior, and how I'd like for that to change, or even how I want a curve to look, I don't actually know how to change the shim stack to achieve that specific behavior.

However, most high end dampers all behave similarly, and that is, they keep the car planted. Lets see if I can convince CSG to pony up for a set of MCA dampers...

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I know I'm taking this too seriously, but this is bad, left side will always weigh more than right and when getting detailed ignoring that is giving up performance.

Why is this the case? Are you referring to to the mass of the driver? I drive a rhd car.