Just another 450whp Turbo FT86 -- and NOW 530hp

[johan]

I don't know how much this factors into this overall banter/conversation/flame fest....

I do know that Vit has a very intelligent adaptive boost / adaptive traction control logic on his FR-S that no one else in the world has... because he wrote it himself. He's shown me the logic, the tables, the way it works. It's ridiculous.

Basically, per gear, it will adapt how much boost it will try to put down, within a margin based on the target boost, based on the available traction, in a closed loop state. So it automatically learns the road surface and tire state on the fly and adjusts the power output of the car based on it, in every gear...

#motec

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by #maverick#

Street passes, I dont dump the clutch, in fact I preload with the hand brake and slip it out. Dead hooking on a track is different from the street my car hooks just fine on the track its on the street where you have issues.

It seems your whole argument is based on drag launching... which isn't just driving the car and putting your foot down whether it's in 1st gear or 5th gear.

I don't have any problem putting down the power regardless if it's on E10 or E85 fuel... (300 to 500 power swing). If you're launching the car even with 200hp you can destroy the tire in first gear -- I'm not even going to go there, it opens a whole new venue for argument (tires, launch technique, surface, power management, on and on).

[VitViper]

@#maverick#

This car made about 700hp on 20lbs of boost. Note it has no problem hooking up in 1st... on a 24" radial.

https://www.facebook.com/vittuned/vi...0769307134736/

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by VitViper

"100 passes on the street" -- are these some sort of street racing events? If you're dumping the clutch from high RPM and breaking the tire loose, any car will have traction issues... This is not the same thing as laying into it in 1st gear and letting the car go. You sound like you're intelligent enough to understand the difference.

The 1000hp K20 MR2 we work on runs a 225/50/15 MT ET Street and his car dead hooks over 600whp in 1st gear, lol.

Not being able to hook a measly 500hp on the street is a FWD problem... when running a boring summer street tire. 26" radials on my 910whp Civic hook a lot of power, just fine

I can hook up on the street if I bring the boost in slower but bring it in fast with a speed shift and its game over the hoosier drag radials go up in smoke... I just don't see a way when the car is on regular street tires
especially factory ones it will happen. Then again I was pushing 521wtq. To even have a chance of making that work you would have to bring in the boost super slow and use the traction control and pray you make max power before redline.


You're paraphrasing what I state to suit your own angle. Waste of my time to keep going back and forth with you. Simple fact, this is a Flex Fuel car that at the driver's needs (mine) will go back and forth in a range of power as low as 300whp and just shy of 500whp (~485-490whp on 18psi) with our baseline dyno of 150whp for this car stock.

I really don't have a angle on this, and I did not mean to paraphrase anything. I took what you posted and applied them to what you were saying to me. Example you told me you drive the car at high hp everyday and basically I have no idea what I am talking about it was your car. I took that as at 500hp for the 12k miles you stated the car had on it. Then later you posted about the no E85 available your running 340ish hp I was like what the hell....You blast me then post that??? after I said you don't drive the car like that everyday... That's where the mix up began in my opinion.
I'm not judging you on how you run your car as I do the same thing. I run a flex fuel setup and on the street also I run only a wastegate on the street so I'm not driving on the street at 600+hp either. If I need more power it a flip of a switch to turn on the CO2 bottle. I don't detune because I'm scared of blowing up I do it because 1 I don't street race 2 its a waste why have your bottle on and use CO2 when in San Antonio traffic, which sucks by the way....


When E85 is available, it gets used. When it's not available and the tank is low, it gets filled with 92 octane. What do you do when you're about to run out of fuel and you're 160 miles from home? Call a tow? LOL
Valid point

That's all there is to it. No one can tell us when this motor will break. Sure it'll break eventually -- I've already stated several times: WHO CARES? Clearly you do... lol.

I could care less, I wish you the best and hope it lives a long time tho. You stated in the beginning its a shop car and you know the risk that's good enough for me let it be good enough for you and ignore all the people saying its going to blow... but pls acknowledge the weak rods and borrowed time in your post.. And if you crack the code to long life thru tuning my hats off to you.


As much as I want -- I've made as much as 36psi on a 64mm turbo with this anti-lag on other cars in ~.5-.7 seconds or so. Never pushed the FRS past 12psi on the anti-lag, no need.

Holy smokes 36 psi damn son!!!
I would like to have 15 to 20 psi of anti lag but that's just a guess that's as crisp as your video

Thank you for your time this is much more enjoyable

[johan]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

.

I believe Vit is running 245 Toyo R1R's on the FR-S.

[johan]

Another Motec thing he has going (custom written) - adaptive VE learning. Basically a 3 dimensional long term fuel trim, and since the Motec is fast/accurate enough with a quality wbo2, it's always closed loop, even at WOT. So the fueling is always learning, and always optimized against his targets.

This kind of stuff helps the motor last longer.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Holy smokes 36 psi damn son!!!
I would like to have 15 to 20 psi of anti lag but that's just a guess that's as crisp as your video

Thank you for your time this is much more enjoyable

You need a real ECU... there's only so much you're going to get out of the stock ECU.

The car is on a 245 Toyo R1R as johan has mentioned.

I don't limit turbo spool in any gear, in fact I run it with a tight margin with a 4 port solenoid to run all the pressure to the top of the gate to keep it closed until target boost is achieve. 1st gear rolls by so quick on these cars that I doubt even with CO2 on the gate you'll hit max boost before you have to shift. The turbo basically spools like a Centri blower in 1st to target boost (essentially the gear ramps too fast without enough load to run the turbo up sooner).

Essentially, no turbo car *really* ever uses it's full potential in 1st gear. Maybe with anti-lag on a slick at a prepped drag strip you could spool the car to 18lbs and then do a hit...

Regardless, even on E85 where I put all the boost in, the car still feels like it needs more power... 1st gear uses it like a Centri blower (spool to shift.. lol), 2nd gear uses it all right away, and 3rd gear is no where near the limit of the tire.

If I put the car on my rolling anti-lag in 1st gear, sure, it'll come in right away... maybe I'll show you the rolling anti lag today :P

But after you're done going straight... this car's also fun to do this...

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by VitViper

You need a real ECU... there's only so much you're going to get out of the stock ECU.

The car is on a 245 Toyo R1R as johan has mentioned.

I don't limit turbo spool in any gear, in fact I run it with a tight margin with a 4 port solenoid to run all the pressure to the top of the gate to keep it closed until target boost is achieve. 1st gear rolls by so quick on these cars that I doubt even with CO2 on the gate you'll hit max boost before you have to shift. The turbo basically spools like a Centri blower in 1st to target boost (essentially the gear ramps too fast without enough load to run the turbo up sooner).

Essentially, no turbo car *really* ever uses it's full potential in 1st gear. Maybe with anti-lag on a slick at a prepped drag strip you could spool the car to 18lbs and then do a hit...

Regardless, even on E85 where I put all the boost in, the car still feels like it needs more power... 1st gear uses it like a Centri blower (spool to shift.. lol), 2nd gear uses it all right away, and 3rd gear is no where near the limit of the tire.

If I put the car on my rolling anti-lag in 1st gear, sure, it'll come in right away... maybe I'll show you the rolling anti lag today :P

But after you're done going straight... this car's also fun to do this...

Now that looks like quite a ride you have going on lol

I'm impressed by your boost by gear strategy, I have that in my boost controller but have kinda been hooked on boost by MPH. It looks like I need to broaden my horizons and play a little. I need to know how to tap into the gear range indicator some how to send it to the boost controller. Time to go to work.... Thanks for the info

EDIT: As far as a video YOU HAVE MY FULL ATTENTION

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Now that looks like quite a ride you have going on lol

I'm impressed by your boost by gear strategy, I have that in my boost controller but have kinda been hooked on boost by MPH. It looks like I need to broaden my horizons and play a little. I need to know how to tap into the gear range indicator some how to send it to the boost controller. Time to go to work.... Thanks for the info

The gear indicator on the dash is either an internal calculation by the BCM/dash module, or transmitted via CAN, so you really have no way to tap into it.

I've never been a fan of boost by MPH, prefer by gear -- for the reason, if I'm at 45mph, I could be in 2nd or 3rd... I want the boost target of 3rd if I'm in 3rd... not the boost target of 45mph (which could be quite a bit lower).

What ECU are you using that you can't do some sort of boost control? Even ECUTek has it.. granted it's pretty basic.

[#maverick#]

Originally Posted by johan

I don't know how much this factors into this overall banter/conversation/flame fest....

I do know that Vit has a very intelligent adaptive boost / adaptive traction control logic on his FR-S that no one else in the world has... because he wrote it himself. He's shown me the logic, the tables, the way it works. It's ridiculous.

Basically, per gear, it will adapt how much boost it will try to put down, within a margin based on the target boost, based on the available traction, in a closed loop state. So it automatically learns the road surface and tire state on the fly and adjusts the power output of the car based on it, in every gear...

#motec

Originally Posted by VitViper

You need a real ECU... there's only so much you're going to get out of the stock ECU.

The car is on a 245 Toyo R1R as johan has mentioned.

I don't limit turbo spool in any gear, in fact I run it with a tight margin with a 4 port solenoid to run all the pressure to the top of the gate to keep it closed until target boost is achieve. 1st gear rolls by so quick on these cars that I doubt even with CO2 on the gate you'll hit max boost before you have to shift. The turbo basically spools like a Centri blower in 1st to target boost (essentially the gear ramps too fast without enough load to run the turbo up sooner).

Essentially, no turbo car *really* ever uses it's full potential in 1st gear. Maybe with anti-lag on a slick at a prepped drag strip you could spool the car to 18lbs and then do a hit...

Regardless, even on E85 where I put all the boost in, the car still feels like it needs more power... 1st gear uses it like a Centri blower (spool to shift.. lol), 2nd gear uses it all right away, and 3rd gear is no where near the limit of the tire.

If I put the car on my rolling anti-lag in 1st gear, sure, it'll come in right away... maybe I'll show you the rolling anti lag today :P

But after you're done going straight... this car's also fun to do this...

That's pretty fucking badass if I can say so myself. So from my understanding you can completely control traction with motec eliminating the need for something like a davis box (I hang out with V8 guys, dont that much about standalone options for 4 cyls).

[johan]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Now that looks like quite a ride you have going on lol

That image of the yaw/g is from me driving Saturday night lol.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by #maverick#

That's pretty fucking badass if I can say so myself. So from my understanding you can completely control traction with motec eliminating the need for something like a davis box (I hang out with V8 guys, dont that much about standalone options for 4 cyls).

There's a lot you can do -- we target driven wheel speed based on non-driven wheel speed and hold the car at that bias with the MoTeC TC.

Some things I haven't yet had time to implement is boost ramp/limits based on accel rates (yaw/lat mostly). Something I'm going to play with soon -- I want to be able to tune the response of the turbo based on what the car is doing -- IE, if I'm mid corner and I floor it, no reason to spool the turbo to max boost... ramp it in as yaw rate settles closer to an acceptable target.

[johan]

Originally Posted by VitViper

There's a lot you can do -- we target driven wheel speed based on non-driven wheel speed and hold the car at that bias with the MoTeC TC.

Some things I haven't yet had time to implement is boost ramp/limits based on accel rates (yaw/lat mostly). Something I'm going to play with soon -- I want to be able to tune the response of the turbo based on what the car is doing -- IE, if I'm mid corner and I floor it, no reason to spool the turbo to max boost... ramp it in as yaw rate settles closer to an acceptable target.

Ohhhhh I realllllly like this. like omg yes. This is my main WTF with corners + turbo.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by johan

Ohhhhh I realllllly like this. like omg yes. This is my main WTF with corners + turbo.

Well I already have boost vs throttle vs gear, but adding a component vs what the vehicle is ACTUALLY doing (ie, it knows you're mid corner with the IMU...) is going to take it to another level.

Someone needs to let me borrow their Centri blower powered car for some R&D, we can do a boost by gear kit for those and implement similar logic