Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine

[czar07]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

That looks to be some significant damage. Either the car is that structurally weak (considering the half-wells with the exposed liner in front of the towers in this car) or it was going faster.

I dont agree with that. That looks to be the right amount of damage for 40-50kph in a modern crumple zone equipped vehicle

[Frost]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

I know that primitive VSC systems in older cars had a lag time that you could get ahead of and cause MORE problems than an inexperienced driver who would just freeze up.

I had an 01 4Runner that would kick in VSC a second or so AFTER you had corrected a skid and sent you skidding in the opposite direction. Which was really frightening because the VSC-induced pants crapping would happen when you thought you alread had already regained control of the truck.

Good times.

For a second there, thought you were talking about the Lexus SUV. Okay, I will concede there but whoever said the BMW ripping off a fresh green is just being silly no?

As for the insurance thing, whether the car gets totalled or not actually only plays a chunk of the whole game. The key thing is health care. When people sue for accidents, it usually close to or in million dollar range. THAT is why my shitbox subcompact gets higher insurance rates than say a RAV4. According to all the brokers I talk to, the easier it is to get hurt in your car, the higher the insurance rates. Attrition rates for cars being totalled are always higher on tiny cars (eg: IQ, Smart, Yaris, Fit) but the key thing is that chances are you are going to get hurt easier than say in a Hummer.

When I countered that point with: "Well, if I drive a Hummer - shouldn't that mean if I ever cause an accident, I wind up hurting more people since I am the "big guy" on the road?"

No answer to that one.

Insurance... LIES.

[the_3d_man]

I can't speak for VSC because I've never really found myself in a situation where it was needed, and I've never found traction control to hinder my driving, but I will say that I absolutely hate ABS and wish it would go away. I owned two cars with no ABS before I bought one with ABS (my Legacy GT). On two occasions the ABS has nearly caused me to have an accident. I learned to modulate the brakes properly on my previous cars, and keep control under hard braking. So if you have to brake hard and you momentarily slip a little you just back off some and re-apply at slightly lower pressure and you're back on track. In the Legacy, once ABS activates there's no stopping it, even if you let off and try to modulate brake pressure, it just keeps sliding in whatever direction you were going, all the time you can feel the ABS pulsing. It's especially bad in snow. It will just start sliding and never stop. I have to be careful to never have ABS engage in the snow. If you think about it, pulsing the brakes only encourages further loss of traction, so why is this considered better? (The answer is because most people just freak out and mash the brake peddle and hold it, so ABS is better in that situation)

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by blur

I get the feeling a recall is coming...

Because someone turned off the stability and traction control and wrecked? I think you're being a little dramatic. People wreck cars every day even with TC and SC on.

[ChrisH]

Folks, although today cars are equipped with VSC/TSC/ABS, generations of drivers managed to drive their RWD cars without all this stuff!
When I started with my first car (RWD), none of these systems even existed.
Even my current car does not have VSC.
And CERTAINLY I switch off the TSC, when go fast through a nice corner, as the crap is just disturbing and unnecessary - if you have learned to control your car and your emotions!

And yes, all these nice new systems make you a less complete driver, as you will not learn to handle your car at the limits.
Join a driver safety training with a kick plate - and just watch, how many drivers are unable to control their car and just spin off - although their VSC/TSC/ABS can't even be switched off.
- No, the VSC will NOT be able to stabilize the car.
- And yes, a well trained driver can do it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscDiLi1TJc"] - YouTube[/ame]

With regards to ABS I have to state, that it is a big safety issue in the winter on fresh, loose snow (or on gravel/sand), as it increases the braking distance a lot under these conditions.
Very difficult to understand, why ABS off buttons have disappeared.
The only thing you need to learn is how to steer the car when braking on snow, and again, this can be learned by everyone (just open the brake for steering).

Clear message:
Do whatever it takes to become a skilled driver - and take these systems as a nice add-on.

[thill]

I have to say, that while I agree that turning off traction and stability on public roads is not a good idea if you are not experienced with a RWD car, or do not understand how far you can push the car, traction and stability control will also not save you from the laws of physics. Just drive smartly. There is a time and place to drive the car hard. A large empty parking lot is a good place to start.

As for the comments about insurance and recalls, people need to calm down. While I am sure the OP may see a rise in his insurance rates, it will have little affect on anyone else unless this becomes the trend with this car.

I also found neutral's confession and his accountability refreshing. So many people these days dont want to accept the consequences of their actions and like to blame somebody or something else. Everyone makes mistakes, glad nobody was hurt.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by blur

I get the feeling a recall is coming...

A recall because of a stupid beginner's mistake?
Rather unlikely...

[BobDigi5060]

OP said he turned the traction control off and gave some gas while driving through his "favorite right turn". Don't know how we can chalk this up to anything other than a life lesson.. All it takes is good judgement to prevent from wrecking your sh*t on the street.

There is no need to get all technical about driving dynamics.. I see no shortage of cab drivers when snow is on the streets of Denver.

[BobDigi5060]

with that being said, 2 things about bein a man:

Leadership

Learning from the past

I don't own one, but this is ft86.. he is our bro.. I'm sorry for being catty in my previous post

[neutral]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

with that being said, 2 things about bein a man:

Leadership

Learning from the past

I don't own one, but this is ft86.. he is our bro.. I'm sorry for being catty in my previous post

Thanks man. I'd say that what you said was warranted and accurate though. I should've known better. And what you said was nothing compared to what the guys on Jalopnik said about me. Completely different opinions over there. It's just nice to get a feeling of community here. I'm really glad you guys didn't ostracize me. I will be a better person and a better, more responsible driver after this experience.

[blur]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Because someone turned off the stability and traction control and wrecked? I think you're being a little dramatic. People wreck cars every day even with TC and SC on.

Same thing happened with the MR2, toyota had to neuter it... honestly a simple spring swap with the BRZ springs should reduce incidents like this. Maybe scion should organize free HPDE events for FRS owners, maybe word will get around as the car gets more popular that this car has a kick to it.

And not every car behaves like this at the limit, a RWD with an open diff wouldn't oversteer like that. Not many RWD cars come factory with LSD or such an aggressive suspension tune.

Anyway, to OP, I can't believe you didn't know the car's reaction would be oversteer; I've watched too many race crashes and every time it's the rear wheels that lose traction, never ever ever the front. I've lost rear traction in the rain due to ghey rear tires... in a FWD. I 180'ed into a sign, minor bodywork damage thank goodness.

There was actually a Jalopnik featured story recently where a guy with the same car as me was street racing and lost rear traction on the highway, and slammed into the barrier on the other side of the highway, after careening across 3 lanes.

Anyway, never EVER push a car to it's limits on a public road. Take it to an HPDE and have a blast safely!

[dookie11]

Originally Posted by mr2lor

and the rise of insurance rates on fr-s...

This was the only thing I was thinking the whole time I read the OP. Less than a month, and the statistics start to build...

[neutral]

Originally Posted by blur

Anyway, to OP, I can't believe you didn't know the car's reaction would be oversteer; I've watched too many race crashes and every time it's the rear wheels that lose traction, never ever ever the front. I've lost rear traction in the rain due to ghey rear tires... in a FWD. I 180'ed into a sign, minor bodywork damage thank goodness.

Of course I knew it would oversteer. The problem is I wasn't ready for the feeling of oversteer, and was so startled that I couldn't even process a way to react to the situation correctly. Seeing it is one thing, experiencing it was a whole new ballgame, at least for me.

[blur]

Originally Posted by neutral

Of course I knew it would oversteer. The problem is I wasn't ready for the feeling of oversteer, and was so startled that I couldn't even process a way to react to the situation correctly. Seeing it is one thing, experiencing it was a whole new ballgame, at least for me.

Lol imagine the surprise for me, driving a FWD and having the rear break out... I didn't even comprehend what happened for a while lol.

live and learn. This is why the FR-S is built to be safe, and why people have insurance Im glad your okay.