Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine

[Scaldy]

Tough news. My jaw just kind of hung open when I saw the pictures.

Auto Cross saves lives and saves cars. I went to a few autocross sessions with my VW GTI. I learned to respect the limits of my car. I'm waiting a few weeks for my FRS but I plan to Auto Cross it a few times as well. I think autocross teaches you to drive defensively by letting you drive offensively... if that makes sense.

[hyper4mance]

First off, I'm sure we all are glad nobody was seriously hurt. It takes a real man to admit his mistakes, so I have much respect for you sharing your story. I'm sure with everyone one the forum everyone will help out where they can, especially with moral support. Yeah it sucks, but its money which can be replaced. Health >> finances!

As for the airbag deployment, I've heard stories where cops ask if everyone was wearing their seatbelt. If they weren't the sensors detect that and tend to blow out faster to compensate for the lack of restraint, causing the windshield to shatter/crack. I'm not sure if this is true in our cars since everything is so low and the windshield may be angled differently, but just be sure if this happens on other cars the cops tend to second guess if you are lying in wearing a seatbelt.

[BobDigi5060]

24, too old to be doing Tokyo Drift on the street.

[eindio]

This should be made a sticky as warning to people coming from fwd cars. This probably won't be the first time

[Frost]

It's really sad that happened Neutral - I hope you are okay.

FWD to RWD is always a learning lesson because inherently, FWD is more forgiving (understeer tends to freak people less than oversteer and requires less driver input to correct). When I went from Corolla to MR2, it was just the same except I always snuck out to a deserted parking lot or autocross to learn the limits.

When I went to my IS300, I had already known what snap oversteer was and was well prepared when snow season hit (the MR2 was never driven in snow) and all the associated fishtail movements that can come with stupidity in the snow.

Hopefully others will learn from this.

[R8]

Originally Posted by eindio

This should be made a sticky as warning to people coming from fwd cars. This probably won't be the first time

It's not necessarily a FWD to RWD thing. From what I'm reading, the FR-S suspension was tuned to get sideways easily. I'm guessing that even experienced, but overconfident RWD drivers might be caught by surprise if they're used to more stable RWD cars.

[kanundrum]

At least your Famous now

Jalopnik!!!!

[Giccin]

Who said I was the first one that was going to crash my car because I'm asian (part) AND a female? Pfft.

lol

Well... I don't know what else to say or do.. other than.. /facepalm.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by neutral

I hit the gas, and the back end immediately swung out. The car oversteered and made an arc over a small curb and into the pole. I don't remember if I lifted off the gas or not, but I'm pretty sure I must've, which then caused the oversteer to hit even harder because of the sudden weight transfer to the front wheels. It was the initial slide that happened a lot faster than I expected it to.

The pole was placed in the INNER side of the corner, right?

Originally Posted by Frost

It's really sad that happened Neutral - I hope you are okay.

FWD to RWD is always a learning lesson because inherently, FWD is more forgiving (understeer tends to freak people less than oversteer and requires less driver input to correct). When I went from Corolla to MR2, it was just the same except I always snuck out to a deserted parking lot or autocross to learn the limits.

When I went to my IS300, I had already known what snap oversteer was and was well prepared when snow season hit (the MR2 was never driven in snow) and all the associated fishtail movements that can come with stupidity in the snow.

Hopefully others will learn from this.

This is exactly what I tried to say in my former post.
It just needs some action from the driver to stabilize oversteer, while you don't need to do much in understeer (unfortunately understeer leaves you at the same time defenseless: Either the room left on the street is sufficient - or off you go....)

This active compensation of oversteer just needs some learning.
It is like breaking: If you first need to think which pedal to press to slow done the car you are much too slow. It needs to become a reflex action - which just needs some training.

And as mentioned below, oversteer can also hit FWD drivers! See the video below! So everyone should try to learn this countersteer reflex.

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Hi Neutral,

.......

I guess the pole that the car hit was standing at the INNER side of the corner, right? This would be typically for OVERsteer.
The main difference to FWD-understeer is, that you need to compensate it by active steering in the opposite direction.
This is - by the way - helpful, even if you never intend to drift or if you drive a FWD car, as it can happen to any car under certain circumstances.

See this little video from an Audi driver (yes, no RWD-BMW!), who get's surprised by oil on the road: the car oversteers! He reacts right by steering to the left, but he is a little too slow. When the car comes back to track he should quickly reduce the steering back to neutral, but he is a little to slow, too. Therefore the cars end swings over in the other side. Then the same again - until he finally manages to catch the car.

I would highly recommend to take time in next winter and look for a totally empty parking lot covered completely with snow and learn how to react on a rear axle loosing traction. This is at the same time learning how to drift a car - which is so much fun. And managing an oversteering car is absolutely necessary to become a good driver!
Actually I had written a little lecture how to take the first steps on snow - but unfortunately its all in German. (But I guess you don't speak German??)
Well, maybe someone here has something similar in English?

.....
ChrisH

Folks, does anyone maybe already have such as little lecture in English?

I think this would be very helpful for those who start with their first RWD car.

[AshWilliams]

A crash is probably the most obvious way you can learn of the differences in vehicle dynamics between FWD and RWD.

I can't really ascertain if there was a lesson to be learned here, except maybe that inexperienced drivers shouldn't try to turn off the stability control... EVER.

For every one of these wrecked by a kid who doesn't realize a 200hp Subaru isn't a FWD Honda with a wheezy engine, the insurance premiums will be revised.

I figure after a few more kids wrap these around telephone poles, we'll have 20-30% bump in premiums. If not more.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by eindio

This should be made a sticky as warning to people coming from fwd cars. This probably won't be the first time

It should be a warning to those who want to turn off tcs/vsc on the street.

I have a fair amount of experience in ff, fr, mr and rr cars and I still won't turn off vsc/tcs on the street. What's the point of turning it off?

Save it for the track.

[AshWilliams]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

It should be a warning to those who want to turn off tcs/vsc on the street.

I have a fair amount of experience in ff, fr, mr and rr cars and I still won't turn off vsc/tcs on the street. What's the point of turning it off?

Save it for the track.

Perception.

It's ingrained into people's minds that VSC/TSC/ABS/etc makes you a lesser driver.

[ZDan]

I've never had stability control and never missed it. IMO, it can let drivers develop bad habits. The few times I have experienced stability controls or traction control in other cars, I felt it was overly/unnecessarily intrusive.

Having driver training that emphasizes control at/beyond the limits of adhesion would be much better, but of course that's probably a bit much to expect...

God knows the unskilled masses are much better off with traction/stability controls, but my personal preference is for no driver aids.

[ruskymx]

Originally Posted by jesseps

Sucks that that happened. At least you are fine. This is my first RWD car also and I am never turning off the VSC/TRAC, until I learn how to properly handle the car. One thing, I am dreading is winter, I just hope the SNOW option on the FR-S does work properly.

The ONLY thing that the "Snow" mode does is start the transmission in 2nd gear after you come a stop, which will reduce the initial torque when starting to move from a complete stop.

Ruskymx