Track day insurance questions

[DarkSunrise]

I know a guy who totaled his BRZ at an HPDE event and his regular insurance covered it. That's rare so don't expect it to happen (he was surprised too), but if you ever find yourself in that situation it's worth calling your insurance to see what they can do.

Personally I don't buy track-specific insurance but my car is paid off and while it would hurt like hell, I could write it off if it was ever totaled at a track day.

[Apex_BRZ]

I purchase track insurance from Lockton when I visit any major tracks for HPDE's. When I visit Tracks like RPM, I don't bother. It's a small track with tons of run off and the most likely accident would just result in going off track and uprooting a bean field. Big deal.

Road America and Sebring, however, I purchase insurance. If something happens at RA and I stuff the car into a wall at the kink or my brakes fail going downhill into T5, I take comfort in knowing that I should get around $18k-$20k for the car after deductible and mods. The $180 it costs is a drop in the bucket compared to writing off a car I paid $30k for.

The car is paid off, and I can afford to lose it, but not protecting it at all is just silly. I totally get the whole concept of "don't track it if you can't afford to write it off". It's true to an extent, but I think anyone tracking a car (of reasonable value) at a high risk track without insurance is out of their minds. If you can afford to write off the car, you can afford $180-$220 per event to insure a BRZ. Losing it all in an accident just because you can is just foolish, financially. It's not logical.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

I purchase track insurance from Lockton when I visit any major tracks for HPDE's. When I visit Tracks like RPM, I don't bother. It's a small track with tons of run off and the most likely accident would just result in going off track and uprooting a bean field. Big deal.

Road America and Sebring, however, I purchase insurance. If something happens at RA and I stuff the car into a wall at the kink or my brakes fail going downhill into T5, I take comfort in knowing that I should get around $18k-$20k for the car after deductible and mods. The $180 it costs is a drop in the bucket compared to writing off a car I paid $30k for.

The car is paid off, and I can afford to lose it, but not protecting it at all is just silly. I totally get the whole concept of "don't track it if you can't afford to write it off". It's true to an extent, but I think anyone tracking a car (of reasonable value) at a high risk track without insurance is out of their minds. If you can afford to write off the car, you can afford $180-$220 per event to insure a BRZ. Losing it all in an accident just because you can is just foolish, financially. It's not logical.

While I agree with this in concept, I think you've gotta be careful because sometimes it's the innocent looking ones that get you. My local track is a low speed circuit with tons of space to go off on all corners but there is one turn that is dangerous because it's a high speed sweeper that lands on grass and if you come flying off, the grass won't help slow you down before you're in the wall despite it being pretty far away. I watched a friend of mine go off right in front of me and trash his front bumper and undertray as a result. He's lucky that was all that was damaged.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

The car is paid off, and I can afford to lose it, but not protecting it at all is just silly. I totally get the whole concept of "don't track it if you can't afford to write it off". It's true to an extent, but I think anyone tracking a car (of reasonable value) at a high risk track without insurance is out of their minds. If you can afford to write off the car, you can afford $180-$220 per event to insure a BRZ. Losing it all in an accident just because you can is just foolish, financially. It's not logical.

I don't think the math supports you. At most track days I go to, there are about 120 cars split over 4 groups. Now let's assume at every track weekend, there is 1 totaled car. (I've done about 25 track days now and usually see less than this at my events, but for the sake of discussion I'll be conservative here). Roughly speaking that means the probability of totaling your car is about 0.8% per event on average.

In order to make the cost of insurance worth it, it would have to be no greater than $160/event (0.008 x $20,000). The last time I requested an HPDE insurance quote, it was around $300. And that doesn't even include the insurance deductible which reduces the payout by thousands of dollars.

I understand some people would rather get insurance anyway, but I don't think the numbers work out. Some of this will also depend whether you perceive yourself more or less likely than average to total your car vs. the average track driver, in which case you would need to re-run the numbers.

[Apex_BRZ]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

While I agree with this in concept, I think you've gotta be careful because sometimes it's the innocent looking ones that get you. My local track is a low speed circuit with tons of space to go off on all corners but there is one turn that is dangerous because it's a high speed sweeper that lands on grass and if you come flying off, the grass won't help slow you down before you're in the wall despite it being pretty far away. I watched a friend of mine go off right in front of me and trash his front bumper and undertray as a result. He's lucky that was all that was damaged.

Agreed, but not if we are talking about RPM. I'm as cautious as the next guy, but that track is pretty darn safe as far as tracks go and it's low speed. Sure, there are places to wreck...but that's where it's up to each individual person to weigh in their opinion of risk vs cost.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

The car is paid off, and I can afford to lose it, but not protecting it at all is just silly. I totally get the whole concept of "don't track it if you can't afford to write it off". It's true to an extent, but I think anyone tracking a car (of reasonable value) at a high risk track without insurance is out of their minds. If you can afford to write off the car, you can afford $180-$220 per event to insure a BRZ. Losing it all in an accident just because you can is just foolish, financially. It's not logical.

It is not foolish nor is it not logical. It is managing risk.

I track my car but I will never get faster than ~2:07 or so at Buttonwillow, when most of the fast guys gun for sub-2:00 times. I know where I am not pushing it on the track, and I am perfectly fine driving 90-95% and enjoying it out there.

It's like buying travel insurance. You can buy plane tickets all day, yet when you plan for a trip months in advance and don't buy travel insurance in case something bad happens, it makes no sense... just because you mitigate risk in a reasonable fashion does not make other methods of risk mitigation foolish or not logical.

-alex

[Apex_BRZ]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I don't think the math supports you. At most track days I go to, there are about 120 cars split over 4 groups. Now let's assume at every track weekend, there is 1 totaled car. (I've done about 25 track days now and usually see less than this at my events, but for the sake of discussion I'll be conservative here). Roughly speaking that means the probability of totaling your car is about 0.8% per event on average.

In order to make the cost of insurance worth it, it would have to be no greater than $160/event (0.008 x $20,000). The last time I requested an HPDE insurance quote, it was around $300. And that doesn't even include the insurance deductible which reduces the payout by thousands of dollars.

I understand some people would rather get insurance anyway, but I don't think the numbers work out. Some of this will also depend whether you perceive yourself more or less likely than average to total your car vs. the average track driver, in which case you would need to re-run the numbers.

The math supports ME just fine. You're overthinking it. If someone does a TON of track days every year, they may decide the cost/risk isn't worth it to insure. Sure, I get that, it's up to them.

As far as the chances and averaging in other cars and factoring in probabilities in some complex equation? Really? It's simple. I could wreck it, there's a chance. Am I willing to lose the car with no insurance over a few track days per year that I decide I need it? Nope. Insured. I recommend others do the same so there are no financial surprises.

Ultimately, it's up to each person to determine their own cost/risk assessment.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

Ultimately, it's up to each person to determine their own cost/risk assessment.

Exactly. It's up to each driver to figure out what amount of risk he wants to take on. Just because you choose to buy track insurance doesn't mean it's foolish or crazy for other drivers not to.

[Toyarzee]

I appreciate the constructive discussion everyone.

I also would interject that there are additional situations that may further influence this decision over the base risk assessment of specifically being on track with others (without the aforementioned tank). I just filed a claim with my insurance in February, have had my 86 back from a body shop for a week now, and I know in the back of my head that I absolutely cannot risk having to call Mercury again to see if they'll cover an increased risk driving event if there were another incident causing substantial damages so close to completing my prior claim. Also, the fact that I daily this car and my project car is not running further limits my options.

These facts along with your examples have helped me confirm that I will definitely get track insurance for this event, even if it rains and is cut short. But perhaps I will be somewhat selective on my future track days moving forward.

[stevesnj]

Is something like this company seem like a good alternative? My insurance does not cover me doing anything on a track.

https://ontrackinsurance.com/endorsed-by/

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Is something like this company seem like a good alternative? My insurance does not cover me doing anything on a track.

https://ontrackinsurance.com/endorsed-by/

That's pretty much what this while thread is about

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Is something like this company seem like a good alternative? My insurance does not cover me doing anything on a track.

https://ontrackinsurance.com/endorsed-by/

Quote I'm getting from their website is +/- $10 from Lockton Affinity, but I didn't get so far as their confirming whether it's 10% or 15% deductible or something else... seems legitimate tho

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Is something like this company seem like a good alternative? My insurance does not cover me doing anything on a track.

https://ontrackinsurance.com/endorsed-by/

I've dealt with them for 2 years and they're a pleasure to work with. Nothing but positive things to say. (That said, I've never had a claim with them).

I only went with Lockton Affinity this year because I'm doing an event up in Canada and On Track doesn't cover any tracks outside the US.

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I've dealt with them for 2 years and they're a pleasure to work with. Nothing but positive things to say. (That said, I've never had a claim with them).

I only went with Lockton Affinity this year because I'm doing an event up in Canada and On Track doesn't cover any tracks outside the US.

Awesome, thanks for your input!