Article from Club4AG speculation of new Toyota 86

[nikitopo]

Happy to see Moto posting back here and providing us valuable information. Thank you.

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

Perhaps you didn't read my article...

Remember that while "catalog specs" of the car is 200hp and actual of current car being around 170+/-...

Well, I can guarantee that this one has been revamped to address this discrepancy, which is rather extensive in internal changes. Also on the list of changes are the durability related, so that the engine actually lives longer under severe abuse.

So if the hp gains are 15-20, that would still be under catalog specs, but significantly more than what it may seem on brochures right?


** Hint hint...

if this is true and the torque has been addressed as well, that would make the car perform significantly differently that the zenki. possibly well worthy of a trade in! thanks Moto!

[Mim]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

if this is true and the torque has been addressed as well, that would make the car perform significantly differently that the zenki. possibly well worthy of a trade in! thanks Moto!

That actually brings up an interesting and very exciting point. As a manufacturer you have a new platform in the twins that, in an amazingly short time, has grown into a widely known and respected product. What do you now need to do to this car that is going to be equal parts cost effective and feature wise, be different enough that would make an existing owner consider upgrading during the new refresh cycle?

Enthusiasts are a fickle bunch that are hard to please. I'd argue that the majority of people who have already done some serious mods to their cars are more likely to sit tight and continue as is, but the vast majority of owners only do basic mods (if any). This would generally include the crowd that are worried about warranty and long term resale values. Welcome to the smart phone problem. When is the new model changed enough that it would warrant jumping ship?

So far we have only seen styling details for the refresh, but that alone won't (in my eyes) be enough to move most existing owners to buy the refreshed product. Moto has alluded to a collection of detail adjustments that sound like the new model will be far more than a simple front/rear bumper swap, wheels and a steering wheel. This makes me excited!

As an existing owner, that the manufacturer has committed to advancing the platform in a meaningful long term manner. That after enjoying my own twin for a couple of years, I will have something both familiar, but different enough that I would happily buy another down the line.

To be honest the styling tweaks alone haven't really done much for me, but this talk about a large collection of under the skin massaging has made me sit up and pay attention. I'm also excited at the prospect of a new wave of after market products for our cars, that will take these new changes and find a way of going that little bit further.

[Braces]

tldr entire thread.

But most refreshes aren't supposed to bring out some fundamental model change. Just a "refresh". The 86 is only 3-4 years old. I doubt many gen 1 owners would upgrade to the refresh. The refresh is just that. A refresh that is geared to bring in NEW owners and to keep the current model relevant.

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by Braces

tldr entire thread.

But most refreshes aren't supposed to bring out some fundamental model change. Just a "refresh". The 86 is only 3-4 years old. I doubt many gen 1 owners would upgrade to the refresh. The refresh is just that. A refresh that is geared to bring in NEW owners and to keep the current model relevant.

Then go back a page and let the learning begin. The hint at a more durable engine would be a huge seller to many alone.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Braces

tldr entire thread.

But most refreshes aren't supposed to bring out some fundamental model change. Just a "refresh". The 86 is only 3-4 years old. I doubt many gen 1 owners would upgrade to the refresh. The refresh is just that. A refresh that is geared to bring in NEW owners and to keep the current model relevant.

One of the few intelligent comments on this forum in days!
The refresh is not made for us. It is made for new buyers. Those new buyers have different priorities that most here. They are not trying to get the current group to trade in for these they are going for a whole different crowd.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Celica00

Then go back a page and let the learning begin. The hint at a more durable engine would be a huge seller to many alone.

More durable? There is an issue with stock? The 20 or so stock engines listed here that had serious issues is a trend? Can't blow up the new engine with a bad tune or poorly done FI system?

[CatScan]

We have the car in the metal. Why are people continuing to speculate? Somebody must have actual, factual information.

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by Celica00

Then go back a page and let the learning begin. The hint at a more durable engine would be a huge seller to many alone.

"What these changes will actually consist of is still unpublished, but we are expecting a more closer number to the catalog output of 205 ps than previous models had respectively to its catalog spec of 200. So the "actual" increase might not be just 5 hp difference of catalog's 200 to 205 at all, but much more. This also applies to the torque figures.
Also I would assume, that the changes in power output is basically a side-effect of honing the engine to even higher levels of control and communication character to the driver, so while the output may still be modest, the thrill and engagement for an experienced driver has been greatly enhanced."

All due respect to Moto. Until we see the actual specifications, it's all speculation.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by R_E_L

While it's certainly speculation on Moto's part, I hope his closeness to the developers of the car give him a better idea of what is happening to the car. To me it sounds like he's saying that while power will remain the same at the crank, a more efficient drive train will be providing more to the wheels and maybe even changing the way torque is delivered.

Usually when Moto speculates its pretty accurate. He knows even more but cant say but things can always change if problems arise. I just love people who tend to ignore what he posts and continue rambling about things with not even 10% of the info he has

Originally Posted by CatScan

We have the car in the metal. Why are people continuing to speculate? Somebody must have actual, factual information.

Because Toyota is not ready to hand the car over to someone else as they are probably still finalizing everything. That means nothing can be "confirmed" just yet. And Moto only speculates because he isnt allowed to say everything that he really knows. So far I dont think he has released any info about the car that didnt end up being correct.

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

More durable? There is an issue with stock? The 20 or so stock engines listed here that had serious issues is a trend? Can't blow up the new engine with a bad tune or poorly done FI system?

No one said invincible. Just simply more durable when driven harshly.

Originally Posted by CatScan

"What these changes will actually consist of is still unpublished, but we are expecting a more closer number to the catalog output of 205 ps than previous models had respectively to its catalog spec of 200. So the "actual" increase might not be just 5 hp difference of catalog's 200 to 205 at all, but much more. This also applies to the torque figures.
Also I would assume, that the changes in power output is basically a side-effect of honing the engine to even higher levels of control and communication character to the driver, so while the output may still be modest, the thrill and engagement for an experienced driver has been greatly enhanced."

All due respect to Moto. Until we see the actual specifications, it's all speculation.

I shouldn't say learn, bad choice of word. Rather it's someone who is more credible than the average forum member.


Obviously it is speculation but there is some matter of credibility when it comes from some certain people. Also it's fun romancing the ideas given.

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by Celica00

No one said invincible. Just simply more durable when driven harshly.

I shouldn't say learn, bad choice of word. Rather it's someone who is more credible than the average forum member.

Obviously it is speculation but there is some matter of credibility when it comes from some certain people. Also it's fun romancing the ideas given.

I want to believe, but I'm perfectly happy with my "old" model given the direction the styling is going to go.

[Twin4Life]

Lets see when was the Rx8 canceled? 2011? The manual has 232HP(haha-right) and the auto has like 190. 2006 350Z, the auto had 287 crank and manual has 300.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Celica00

I shouldn't say learn, bad choice of word. Rather it's someone who is more credible than the average forum member.

Obviously it is speculation but there is some matter of credibility when it comes from some certain people. Also it's fun romancing the ideas given.

^This. Moto-san is very close friend with Tada-san (they're drinking buddy for god sake). I think, he knows what he's talking about.