P0018 and jumped timing? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Berkley · 03-24-2016, 07:15 PM

Hi all - long time reader, first time poster. I bought a 2014 MT FR-S Monogram last year. It's my first new car so I never abuse it, and it's also bone stock. Currently ~8,800 miles on it.

Saturday 3/12: I'm entering a roundabout and the CEL comes on. Pull the code a day later and it's P0018. I proceed to read everything I can about this. Sounds like there's an ECU update that may fix it.

Friday 3/18: Take it to the dealership on Friday 3/18 after not driving it all week. I wait a few hours - they don't know what's wrong, so they give me a Corolla S as a loaner while they check it out.

Wednesday 3/23: I just changed my license/registration from NY to PA so I call the dealership to tell them I'm coming to get my plates. The service advisor tells me they don't know when the car will be ready. He says they've tried two new ECUs and they're constantly on the phone with corporate, engineers, etc.

I drive over there and the service advisor has left for the day. They take me into the shop to grab my registration (the car is on the lift) and I start talking to the mechanic. He tells me the timing gear jumped a tooth (I forget if he said intake or exhaust) and they don't know why, but they're waiting on Toyota to tell them what parts to replace, etc. It's worth noting that they've removed all the accessories and they're down to the actual timing chain itself.

I've read a lot about P0018, but never a car that jumped timing. Assuming this is actually what happened, what else should I do here? This is obviously an interference engine...what are the chances I bent a valve?

billwot · 03-24-2016, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

This is obviously
an interference engine...

Nope.

zkv476 · 03-24-2016, 10:02 PM

It's incredibly unlikely for these motors to jump teeth unless there's something majorly wrong mechanically. Unlikely it'd happen and you'd be left with just a CEL and no noticeable mechanical issues. I had a P0016 code, similar but different cam, ended up being a faulty cam gear and likely to be your issue. A plate on the back of the gear came loose and was bleeding out oil pressure and the ECU was having trouble commanding position. This isn't a terribly uncommon problem. For whatever reason sometimes dealers replace the gears and the CEL still comes back until the ECU is also replaced. Kind of strange if you ask me. I replaced mine after driving on it for over 10k miles and the code never came back. Did it myself because no warranty with the mods I have.

If you have warranty, not sure what you can do other than let the dealer run through their SOP until they replace the part that's causing the problem. If it is the cam gear then there's no surprise that ECU replacements didn't fix it.

humfrz · 03-25-2016, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zkv476

It's incredibly unlikely for these motors to jump teeth unless there's something majorly wrong mechanically. .

Yep, I agree ...... if the one of those chains jumped off a sprocket ...... I figure it would be in the bottom of the cover.

humfrz

humfrz · 03-25-2016, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billwot

Nope.

Hey, @billwot ........ "Nope" to what ...... ??

If you're saying that the FA20 engine is NOT an interference engine ........you may wish to re-think that ...... ??

OR, I got some interference in ma brain.

humfrz

billwot · 03-25-2016, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humfrz

Hey, @billwot ........ "Nope" to what ...... ??

If you're saying that the FA20 engine is NOT an interference engine ........you may wish to re-think that ...... ??

OR, I got some interference in ma brain.

humfrz

Well, I've been wrong before (I think it was 1979.

)

If I'm wrong, educate me. My local Toyo tech said they are non-interference (but being a tech doesn't really mean he's actually knowledgeable)

humfrz · 03-25-2016, 05:49 PM

ya know @billwot , I can't document whether or not the FA20 engine is an interference engine or not ......

I'm calling on a couple of others for their input.

@Tcoat ....... @Ultramaroon what are your thoughts ..... ??

Can anyone else document the answer to the question .. ??

humfrz

Tcoat · 03-25-2016, 06:31 PM

100% an interference engine. I believe all boxers and most high compression 4s are. It is all about the space and weight.
Doubt the chain jumped a tooth since (as was said) you are going to have a whole pile more issues than a CEL! I am more with Zkv that it is the fairly common cam issue.

Ultramaroon · 03-25-2016, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humfrz

Can anyone else document the answer to the question .. ??

humfrz

Yessir. Interference engine.

humfrz · 03-25-2016, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billwot

Well, I've been wrong before (I think it was 1979.

)

If I'm wrong, educate me. My local Toyo tech said they are non-interference (but being a tech doesn't really mean he's actually knowledgeable)

Yep, I hear that ...... my first big "wrong" was back in 1966, when I married the "wrong" woman .......

I reckon you can now enlighten that Toyo tech ...... before he takes the timing chain off an FR-S engine and tries to spin the crankshaft ......

humfrz

Berkley · 03-26-2016, 07:32 PM

Thanks everyone. I thought that sounded suspicious. This is also my first car with a timing chain instead of a belt and I was under the impression chains were much more reliable and less likely to slip or break.

Monday I plan on calling the dealership back to see if I can get some concrete details about what's going on.

humfrz · 03-26-2016, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Thanks everyone. I thought that sounded suspicious. This is also my first car with a timing chain instead of a belt and I was under the impression chains were much more reliable and less likely to slip or break.

Monday I plan on calling the dealership back to see if I can get some concrete details about what's going on.

Please keep us informed.

I'll go with @zkv476 's diagnosis ..... a faulty cam gear.

humfrz

steve99 · 03-27-2016, 01:01 AM

they will likely be running as per this TSB

02-132-12 : DTCs Relating to the AVCS (Active Valve Control System)

could be ECU hardware/firmware
OCV assembly
CAM sprocket/actuator assembly

they will probably swap the lot.

Berkley · 04-04-2016, 07:32 PM

Monday 3/28: Called the dealership and asked what was up. They said they're replacing the cam gears and the ECU (basically what the TSB describes). I asked if it would be done Friday. They said they were waiting on parts (specifically o-rings) and would call me later in the week regardless of the status.

Friday 4/1: The dealership never called me (they said they would), so I called them. The car wasn't ready. They said it would be ready Saturday and they would call me. They didn't.

Monday 4/4: I called the dealership again today. They installed all the parts, test drove the car and the problem didn't go away. They have no clue what's wrong. They say the symptoms are that it jumped timing and over-revved

. They claim Toyota/Subaru/Someone is going to send an engineer out to look at the problem. No timeframe at all. Just another promise that they're going to call me with updates (I'm not optimistic).

Today was the 18th day without the car, and we're back to square one. Square one also involves lemon law research (on my part).

03-24-2016, 07:15 PM	#1
Berkley Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: 14 FR-S Monogram MT Location: Philly Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	P0018 and jumped timing? Hi all - long time reader, first time poster. I bought a 2014 MT FR-S Monogram last year. It's my first new car so I never abuse it, and it's also bone stock. Currently ~8,800 miles on it. Saturday 3/12: I'm entering a roundabout and the CEL comes on. Pull the code a day later and it's P0018. I proceed to read everything I can about this. Sounds like there's an ECU update that may fix it. Friday 3/18: Take it to the dealership on Friday 3/18 after not driving it all week. I wait a few hours - they don't know what's wrong, so they give me a Corolla S as a loaner while they check it out. Wednesday 3/23: I just changed my license/registration from NY to PA so I call the dealership to tell them I'm coming to get my plates. The service advisor tells me they don't know when the car will be ready. He says they've tried two new ECUs and they're constantly on the phone with corporate, engineers, etc. I drive over there and the service advisor has left for the day. They take me into the shop to grab my registration (the car is on the lift) and I start talking to the mechanic. He tells me the timing gear jumped a tooth (I forget if he said intake or exhaust) and they don't know why, but they're waiting on Toyota to tell them what parts to replace, etc. It's worth noting that they've removed all the accessories and they're down to the actual timing chain itself. I've read a lot about P0018, but never a car that jumped timing. Assuming this is actually what happened, what else should I do here? This is obviously an interference engine...what are the chances I bent a valve? Last edited by Berkley; 03-25-2016 at 01:29 AM.

03-24-2016, 10:02 PM	#3
zkv476 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Drives: 2014 SWP BRZ, MT Location: New Jersey Posts: 240 Thanks: 11 Thanked 140 Times in 90 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It's incredibly unlikely for these motors to jump teeth unless there's something majorly wrong mechanically. Unlikely it'd happen and you'd be left with just a CEL and no noticeable mechanical issues. I had a P0016 code, similar but different cam, ended up being a faulty cam gear and likely to be your issue. A plate on the back of the gear came loose and was bleeding out oil pressure and the ECU was having trouble commanding position. This isn't a terribly uncommon problem. For whatever reason sometimes dealers replace the gears and the CEL still comes back until the ECU is also replaced. Kind of strange if you ask me. I replaced mine after driving on it for over 10k miles and the code never came back. Did it myself because no warranty with the mods I have. If you have warranty, not sure what you can do other than let the dealer run through their SOP until they replace the part that's causing the problem. If it is the cam gear then there's no surprise that ECU replacements didn't fix it. __________________ The answer is racecar. Always.

03-25-2016, 06:31 PM	#8
Tcoat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: 2020 Hakone Location: London, Ont Posts: 69,845 Thanks: 61,656 Thanked 108,286 Times in 46,456 Posts Mentioned: 2495 Post(s) Tagged: 50 Thread(s)	100% an interference engine. I believe all boxers and most high compression 4s are. It is all about the space and weight. Doubt the chain jumped a tooth since (as was said) you are going to have a whole pile more issues than a CEL! I am more with Zkv that it is the fairly common cam issue. __________________ Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar. Last edited by Tcoat; 03-25-2016 at 06:53 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
CEL P0018 Cams	woode	Issues \| Warranty \| Recalls / TSB	69	05-13-2023 02:23 PM
P0018 is keeping me from enjoying my car	Astroboy	Issues \| Warranty \| Recalls / TSB	11	05-18-2017 09:37 AM
CEL P0018	brichard0625	Issues \| Warranty \| Recalls / TSB	8	02-10-2016 09:44 PM
31k miles and P0018 happens...	MisterSheep	Issues \| Warranty \| Recalls / TSB	65	01-18-2016 05:33 PM
Ignition Timing and AFR	JB86'd	Software Tuning	15	03-16-2015 11:23 AM

03-25-2016, 05:49 PM	#7
humfrz Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Drives: 2013 FR-S, white, MT Location: Puyallup, WA Posts: 29,929 Thanks: 28,889 Thanked 31,935 Times in 16,471 Posts Mentioned: 709 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	ya know @billwot , I can't document whether or not the FA20 engine is an interference engine or not ...... I'm calling on a couple of others for their input. @Tcoat ....... @Ultramaroon what are your thoughts ..... ?? Can anyone else document the answer to the question .. ?? humfrz

03-26-2016, 07:32 PM	#11
Berkley Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: 14 FR-S Monogram MT Location: Philly Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Thanks everyone. I thought that sounded suspicious. This is also my first car with a timing chain instead of a belt and I was under the impression chains were much more reliable and less likely to slip or break. Monday I plan on calling the dealership back to see if I can get some concrete details about what's going on.

03-27-2016, 01:01 AM	#13
steve99 Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Drives: FT86 Location: Australia Posts: 7,998 Thanks: 1,035 Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts Mentioned: 598 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	they will likely be running as per this TSB 02-132-12 : DTCs Relating to the AVCS (Active Valve Control System) could be ECU hardware/firmware OCV assembly CAM sprocket/actuator assembly they will probably swap the lot.

04-04-2016, 07:32 PM	#14
Berkley Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Drives: 14 FR-S Monogram MT Location: Philly Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Monday 3/28: Called the dealership and asked what was up. They said they're replacing the cam gears and the ECU (basically what the TSB describes). I asked if it would be done Friday. They said they were waiting on parts (specifically o-rings) and would call me later in the week regardless of the status. Friday 4/1: The dealership never called me (they said they would), so I called them. The car wasn't ready. They said it would be ready Saturday and they would call me. They didn't. Monday 4/4: I called the dealership again today. They installed all the parts, test drove the car and the problem didn't go away. They have no clue what's wrong. They say the symptoms are that it jumped timing and over-revved . They claim Toyota/Subaru/Someone is going to send an engineer out to look at the problem. No timeframe at all. Just another promise that they're going to call me with updates (I'm not optimistic). Today was the 18th day without the car, and we're back to square one. Square one also involves lemon law research (on my part).

User Name		Remember Me?
Password