Cosworth Supercharger Owners Thread

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by NotSoJDM

Thank you for posting this. I have been interested in seeing some comparable temperature data for other TVS supercharger options on the market. I run the Edelbrock kit, and took some similar data below, seen below. Unfortunately I didn't log ambient temps the ECU saw, but it was about 70F (21C) that day for comparison sake.



Edit: My IAT data is taken post supercharger (the MAF/MAP harness relcators the temp sensor to the MAP rather than the MAF). Do you know which sensor the Cosworth kit pulls IAT from?

Yes the Cosworth kit relocates the intake temp sensor to the Bosch Map sensor on the manifold post SC and intercooler.

The main reason I went with this kit was the low IATs. The heat exchangers are quite large on the cossy kit and the 4 pass radiator at the front works well.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by ajc209

I wonder if the stock pistons even need changing for 350hp.

If the pistons are good enough, all you'd need to change for 325hp stage 3 might be:

1. New stronger rods
2. New Injectors
3. New Fuel Pump
4. New Clutch plates/cover
5. Set of pulleys and belt

to get to 350hp a new airbox might be required.

Hopefully Matt et al. are working on a stage 3

Although building the engine would be a good idea, I've seen quite a few people on here who simply put bigger injectors and a fuel pump without doing the internals. Namely those running the Jackson Racing or Kraftwerks kits.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by NotSoJDM

I am curious as to why so many people are so keen on keeping the factory pistons?

Most companies making pistons look at this engine and immediately adapt their designs to the FA20 and lower the compression ratio because they figure mo' powa = high boost = low comp, when the trend around here is the opposite, we have DI and some have easy access to E85, high compression ratio and high power are totally compatible with the kind of knock resistance capable on the FA20. Hell if you had told me 6 years ago I'd be running 91 octane on a car with 12.5:1 compression ratio reliable I would have rolled my eyes. Much less boosting that same engine reliably to a nearly 50% power increase while meeting emissions regs.

This means that a big bunch of people go look at pistons, realize the majority are low comp and getting high comp stout replacements means a custom order with custom job prices. Add in the fear of piston slap, having to wait for the engine to warm up, aforementioned build costs, potentially needing to find a new tuner if the setup is out of your local guy's expertise. There's a lot of costs associated with custom builds that get glossed over on internet forums.

Most people don't need or want a 400+ whp big turbo FA20, the accessible piston options are geared towards that because that's the majority of the market early on. As we see people going for more mild builds more reliable and user friendly options will pop up for that 260-340 whp range and an affordable reputable e-tune, i.e. JRSC's C38 kit + Delicious, and the question will fade when it can be answered with "use xxx, stronger than OE, doesn't break the bank, functions like OE"

Edit: That last paragraph was a mess. What I meant was that most people are looking for an OE+ piston, 12.5:1 compression ratio, stronger, and off the shelf so they're not calling up companies asking for quotes to make them. This avoids piston slap from forged pistons, custom tuning that will put them in a very small pool of people running low comp. FA20's (thus less support, high reliance on tuner), and build costs for quality installation of pistons. If you can't tell I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to building engines, but I think these are the forces driving the questions. Most people want an e-tune on their off the shelf kit with an off the shelf setup so they have options when it comes to problem solving, so they're playing in the same pool as most other owners instead of way off on their own with a custom setup. Sure this shit isn't rocket science but the peace of mind knowing you're not swimming in the deep end is invaluable when you get in your car every morning turning the key, and you don't have to worry about calling a taxi or tow truck that morning.

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Although building the engine would be a good idea, I've seen quite a few people on here who simply put bigger injectors and a fuel pump without doing the internals. Namely those running the Jackson Racing or Kraftwerks kits.

Yes but Cosworth did their homework and decided the rods wouldn't last indefinitely at any more than the stage 2 offering.

[ajc209]

According to Matt@Cosworth from the "blown motor facts" thread the stock piston aren't half bad. Something about a hard anodised ring.

[Matt@Cosworth]

aye
on most high output road engines these days the top ring groove on the piston has been hard anodised to greatly increase the wear resistance and so prevent the top ring from going into 'flutter' and pounding the groove to pulp

the stock FA20 piston is a good quality road car piston with this feature
its still however just a cast part so you can only push it so far
especially as this engine has no proper piston squirt / cooling jets

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

aye
on most high output road engines these days the top ring groove on the piston has been hard anodised to greatly increase the wear resistance and so prevent the top ring from going into 'flutter' and pounding the groove to pulp

the stock FA20 piston is a good quality road car piston with this feature
its still however just a cast part so you can only push it so far
especially as this engine has no proper piston squirt / cooling jets

Wouldn't running E85 or Methanol help keep the engine cooler? I realize it wouldn't be ideal for daily driving (unless E85 is readily available like in my area) or in certain places like the UK.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by killboy

For sure you would want to upgrade if going smaller pulley, and it's not a bad price for forged pistons, rods, and a crank. Not sure what the change in compression is though, and whether you'd want to do that with the Cosworth.

Outside the crank, I was window shopping for internals, and found that the HKS would run about $1,800 more than if I were to make a bastard set up of pistons, rods, and valve springs and the such. I could be missing something though?

[ajc209]

I'd say sit tight and wait. I am sure Cosworth are working on something. A tested package of components i.e. stage 2 and 3 would be worth a lot in my mind. They did 300+ hours of dyno development on the stage 2 package. Then a lot of road and track miles.

Designing and Testing all these things takes time, but once its finished and validated you'll have a bullet proof package

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by ajc209

I'd say sit tight and wait. I am sure Cosworth are working on something. A tested package of components i.e. stage 2 and 3 would be worth a lot in my mind. They did 300+ hours of dyno development on the stage 2 package. Then a lot of road and track miles.

Designing and Testing all these things takes time, but once its finished and validated you'll have a bullet proof package

You, sir, are right. I guess I'm just so antsy to upgrade my engine, yet financially I have other priorities hahaha

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by weederr33

You, sir, are right. I guess I'm just so antsy to upgrade my engine, yet financially I have other priorities hahaha

I'm sure Matt has made Cosworth management aware of all of the people that have showed a proper interest in a stage 3 package.

Keep it coming as the more interest they get the more likely we are to get soemthing!

If a stage 3 325hp package consisted of:

rods
injectors
fuel pump - could be optional as some people already have it
clutch plate - could be optional as some people already have it
pulley kit (all new pullies)
New calibration file

How much would you be willing to pay?

[weederr33]

I can only assume the "kit" along with the calibration file(s), and R&D involved, would run no less than $6,000 USD. Would I buy it for that much? Give me a little while to save, yeah. But tbh, I'll just have to wait and see. But I'd also have to consider the cost for installation. A supercharger DIY is totally different than cracking open the engine block. haha

[ajc209]

Do you have to crack the engine block to change just the rods I wonder... arnt the big ends cracked at an angle?

[Matt@Cosworth]

you don't actually have to split the block / crankcase to remove the rods
but you do need the heads off , its an engine out job