BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Linear means not peaky.

No, linear does not mean "not peaky".

The snowy and sunlit part of Mount Fuji's profile in this pic looks just about like our centrifugally supercharged S2000 power curve:


LINEAR and *literally* PEAKY.

Originally Posted by totopo

look at the torque curve. torque is hp/rpm, so you see the stock tq curve is basically completely flat, with the little VTEC YO! bump to the second cams.

Totally flat torque curve is awesome. It also gives a peaky powerband because maximum power is achieved at or near max revs. Power *linearly* builds to a PEAK high in the rev range.

The NA and centrifugally supercharged s2000 both do this, hence both have relatively narrow powerbands. The NA loses a bit of torque over rpm, while the centrifugal one gains a slight bit which makes it more "peaky".

The opposite of peaky is a broad powerband. This is achieved by having torque drop off with rpm. Opposite of peaky:

The modded 342hp curve makes at least 85% of peak power from 4000rpm to 6600rpm, 39% of the rev range vs. 24% for the NA S2000 and 16% for the supercharged S2000.

Actually, leaving off 0-1000rpm as that's not really part of the "rev range", we get the turbo BMW making at least 85% of peak power for 46% of it's rev range vs. 27% for the N.A. S2k and 18% for the blown S2k.

Personally, I prefer linear and peaky n.a. power!

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Sounds like you need a Kpro.
Engagement at sub 4500 with a test pipe is common once you're tuned.

The kick doesn't really bother me because I'm below 6000rpm 99.9% of the time on the street and above it 99.9% of the time at the track!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

The kick doesn't really bother me because I'm below 6000rpm 99.9% of the time on the street and above it 99.9% of the time at the track!

I don't have as much experience with the F20C as I'd like, but there is a technical reason for the 6k engagement for VTEC on the F22Cx.

At about 5200-5600, the stock cat creates a destructive harmonic wave, which actually makes the engine make less power than out of VTEC.

Tunes with stock cats typically set VTEC around 5700.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by ZDan

No, linear does not mean "not peaky".

The snowy and sunlit part of Mount Fuji's profile in this pic looks just about like our centrifugally supercharged S2000 power curve:


LINEAR and *literally* PEAKY.

Totally flat torque curve is awesome. It also gives a peaky powerband because maximum power is achieved at or near max revs. Power *linearly* builds to a PEAK high in the rev range.

The NA and centrifugally supercharged s2000 both do this, hence both have relatively narrow powerbands. The NA loses a bit of torque over rpm, while the centrifugal one gains a slight bit which makes it more "peaky".

The opposite of peaky is a broad powerband. This is achieved by having torque drop off with rpm. Opposite of peaky:

The modded 342hp curve makes at least 85% of peak power from 4000rpm to 6600rpm, 39% of the rev range vs. 24% for the NA S2000 and 16% for the supercharged S2000.

Actually, leaving off 0-1000rpm as that's not really part of the "rev range", we get the turbo BMW making at least 85% of peak power for 46% of it's rev range vs. 27% for the N.A. S2k and 18% for the blown S2k.

Personally, I prefer linear and peaky n.a. power!

We're talking power production here. Not mountain ranges.
Linear means not peaky.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Linear means "straight". You can have an upward slope, and still be linear.

Yes.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

We're talking power production here. Not mountain ranges. Linear means not peaky.

No, it does not.
The word is used to describe power curves that have a well-defined PEAK. Quick search on the etymology of "peak" gives:
mid 16th century: probably a back-formation from peaked, variant of dialect picked ‘pointed.’

EXACTLY like the S2000's power curve. Pointed at the top. Linear rise to a maximum and then a rapid fall-off.

FYI, Fuji is not part of a mountain range...

[WolfpackS2k]

Dammit fellas, don't ruin my thread!

[chaoskaze]

^agree with wolf pack, just like the size of tits, it's all comparative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by ZDan

No, it does not.
The word is used to describe power curves that have a well-defined PEAK. Quick search on the etymology of "peak" gives:
mid 16th century: probably a back-formation from peaked, variant of dialect picked ‘pointed.’

EXACTLY like the S2000's power curve. Pointed at the top. Linear rise to a maximum and then a rapid fall-off.

FYI, Fuji is not part of a mountain range...

I don't think I've read a review in history where anyone has described the S2000's power delivery as "peaky". I have read many article where the Mazdaspeed 3's power deliver has been described as peaky though, because it is. It is not linear.

Pulled from this article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Power_band

[Tokay444]

Sorry for the thread jack.

[WolfpackS2k]

Anybody know what happened to my photographs? They've been straight up erased from Page 1.

[ZDan]

"...the F20C is not a 'peaky' engine, it just needs to be kept at high revs to extract its power." :facepalm: This statement is self-contradictory. People seem to be confused by the fact that broad flat torque curves produce PEAKY power curves. They don't think it be like it is, but it do...

1,000 apologies for continuing threadjack, now back to the original topic of BRZ vs. S2000 vs. Porsche.
I'm about to replace my S2000 because as much as I love the car, I can't stand the wind noise on the highway any more. I commute 100+ miles per day on the highway. I have taken to wearing ear plugs to preserve my hearing!

Light weight, rear wheel drive, and fun to drive are the major priorities along with a fixed roof and preferably rear seats for utility. Don't wanna spend more than ~$28k.

I've narrowed it down to BRZ Limited or FR-S Monogram (not a fan of cloth seats), or '99 - '05 996 911, or maybe a 987.1 Cayman. But damn, the S2000 is such a great car, don't know if I can stomach the downsides to these options.

If the FA20 were as dead-nuts reliable a powerplant as the F20C/F22C, or if it made F20C/F22C power, it would be a slam dunk. But it's fricking tough to give up 1500 revs and 40hp while also giving up reliability and longevity!

The P-cars frankly scare me with D-chunk and IMS issues combined with their "screw you" attitude toward their customers who have suffered failures. At least on the '05 and older cars the IMS bearing can be replaced periodically to mitigate that risk. But still...

Meanwhile, I keep driving my S2000 with earplugs, but it's kinda ridic... Also, not possible to enjoy music with the piss-poor stereo on top of the wind noise.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

I don't think I've read a review in history where anyone has described the S2000's power delivery as "peaky". I have read many article where the Mazdaspeed 3's power deliver has been described as peaky though, because it is. It is not linear.

Pulled from this article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Power_band

I wouldn't take anything seriously from someone saying a dodge viper or corvette has a "narrow" power band.


http://www.z06vette.com/forums/attac...-k-n-stock.jpg
Stock corvette


http://s283.photobucket.com/user/05A...mg013.jpg.html
Stock S2000


Yeah that massive VTEC upswing is what people consider peaky.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

"...the F20C is not a 'peaky' engine, it just needs to be kept at high revs to extract its power." :facepalm: This statement is self-contradictory. People seem to be confused by the fact that broad flat torque curves produce PEAKY power curves. They don't think it be like it is, but it do...

1,000 apologies for continuing threadjack, now back to the original topic of BRZ vs. S2000 vs. Porsche.
I'm about to replace my S2000 because as much as I love the car, I can't stand the wind noise on the highway any more. I commute 100+ miles per day on the highway. I have taken to wearing ear plugs to preserve my hearing!

Light weight, rear wheel drive, and fun to drive are the major priorities along with a fixed roof and preferably rear seats for utility. Don't wanna spend more than ~$28k.

I've narrowed it down to BRZ Limited or FR-S Monogram (not a fan of cloth seats), or '99 - '05 996 911, or maybe a 987.1 Cayman. But damn, the S2000 is such a great car, don't know if I can stomach the downsides to these options.

If the FA20 were as dead-nuts reliable a powerplant as the F20C/F22C, or if it made F20C/F22C power, it would be a slam dunk. But it's fricking tough to give up 1500 revs and 40hp while also giving up reliability and longevity!

The P-cars frankly scare me with D-chunk and IMS issues combined with their "screw you" attitude toward their customers who have suffered failures. At least on the '05 and older cars the IMS bearing can be replaced periodically to mitigate that risk. But still...

Meanwhile, I keep driving my S2000 with earplugs, but it's kinda ridic... Also, not possible to enjoy music with the piss-poor stereo on top of the wind noise.

I got you covered there. How's a (relative) crapton more torque than a S2k to go with that?