Element Tuning Track Tested and Track Proven FRS Video

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by Tainen

With some camber adjustments, I could see some of that oversteer being adjusted out. I wonder how much you could improve your corner speeds even more that way.

And even some slight inward toe would maybe help a bit with oversteer.

EDIT: After watching the second video, it seems like you were carrying even MORE momentum. It seems like the BRZ could just barrel through those corners while the other cars seemed to tip-toe through a lot of them.

[SWAMechFRS]

Great video. Really anticipating getting my car out to the track with my old Porsche Club Racing gang so I can show them what's up. This appears to be a really capable track car right off the lot.

Waiting on my VIN number...........

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Tainen

With some camber adjustments, I could see some of that oversteer being adjusted out. I wonder how much you could improve your corner speeds even more that way.

There really wasn't too much oversteer until the tires started going out. They were used and not good enough for our Unlimited car (wouldn't have lasted 3 laps on that car) but I knew the FRS would be easy on them so we went for it.

I was running the car hard through the turns and since I was getting momentum drifts vs. power slides it's harder to recover since lifting off the throttle doesn't do much (makes it worse I suppose). Overall though on race tires the car is well behaved and the differential action is well balanced. On the OEM street tires the rear diff is actually on the aggressive side and it drifts too much with those tires.

I also did the first session with the VSC Sport mode on and the street tires and it really keeps you from loosing control. It also prevented me from going really fast also as it doesn't allow for a really aggressive entry into the turns. I say everyone on street tires should start with that on until they feel how the car behaves and see where it intervenes. Then at least you'll know where an how the chassis wants to step out on you.

I agree though that some negative camber would allow me to pick up the pace tremendously as I wasn't using the contact patch well at all.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

And even some slight inward toe would maybe help a bit with oversteer.

EDIT: After watching the second video, it seems like you were carrying even MORE momentum. It seems like the BRZ could just barrel through those corners while the other cars seemed to tip-toe through a lot of them.

Yes I was very comfortable for my second session on the race tires and was pushing it for all it was worth trying to find the limit. This makes you slower on such a low power car but once you find the limit, you dial it back a notch and there is your record lap. The track however and my tires were slower than my first session (I ran the same time but was working harder for it) but it was such a blast knowing I had a fraction of the power and still running fast track cars down in the turns.

Now I have an FRS (wanted whatever I could get first) and from what I've heard the FRS is faster around the track (tested in Japan) as Subaru decided on their own Suspension for the BRZ (probably more comfortable). Can anyone confirm this?

[Tainen]

The FR-S is more oversteer prone, the BRZ is a little more even in oversteer/understeer. Randy Pobst stated he liked the BRZ better because of that- he had a little more confidence in the corners in the BRZ, whereas the FR-S liked to step out just a little too often. That made him faster in the BRZ. It sounds like the differences are relatively minimal though, and I'm sure with track tires it's even less minimal.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Tainen

The FR-S is more oversteer prone, the BRZ is a little more even in oversteer/understeer. Randy Pobst stated he liked the BRZ better because of that- he had a little more confidence in the corners in the BRZ, whereas the FR-S liked to step out just a little too often. That made him faster in the BRZ. It sounds like the differences are relatively minimal though, and I'm sure with track tires it's even less minimal.

Interesting. With track rubber it's very controllable and I felt like I could put it anywhere I wanted. As tire and wheel fitment improve most likely people will be going staggered and I think this is when the FRS may be better balance due to less front traction from smaller tires.

Probably means little once we start we get the custom valved BC Coilovers and dial in the spring rates.

[Tainen]

yeah, once you change out the coilovers, it really won't matter.

I hope no one with actual track aspirations goes staggered setup on this car.

[Staticfrost]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

With such little power going up against some heavy weights we didn't win anything but huge respect from everyone that saw this car on the track. I'm not sure I every got a totally clean lap due to getting passed into turn 1 but I managed a 1:40.07 at NJ Thunderbolt. For 155 hp and a 3000 lbs race weight, that's really good. I'm confident a 1:39 was what I could have done but the old race tires were just about corded so I couldn't really give it another shot in hopes of some clear track.

I had a couple strange issues related to the power steering and when I spun out once the car wouldn't restart for awhile. Under heavy braking and turning (Turn 11) is was as if the power steering failed. I'm not sure if the race tires had too much grip under braking for the power steering or there's some funny VSC (it was all off) that doesn't like you trail braking.

Had a blast and can't wait to fully build this car up into a potent Time Attack race car. We should have our prototype Hydra EMS computer in about a week and hopefully our custom valved BC Suspension in 3 weeks.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

Hey thanks for the vid upload!

Intresting to watch! Love the line you were taking and how different it was to that white evo. Loved how you could see the evo get it in to the sweet spot and he would rocket away lolz. (should add never been on a track before so i don't know what the correct line should be :S)

Question, i noticed you said you were getting BC Suspension do you think the Suspension in this car is limiting you at all to keeping up with these cars? I would think it would be the HP difference that would be holding you back.

Look forward to reading more updates

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Staticfrost

Hey thanks for the vid upload!

Intresting to watch! Love the line you were taking and how different it was to that white evo. Loved how you could see the evo get it in to the sweet spot and he would rocket away lolz. (should add never been on a track before so i don't know what the correct line should be :S)

Question, i noticed you said you were getting BC Suspension do you think the Suspension in this car is limiting you at all to keeping up with these cars? I would think it would be the HP difference that would be holding you back.

Look forward to reading more updates

My line is correct of course No in reality different cars, different setups, all require possibly different lines. I'm also using about 4-5 feet more track than these other guys. Sometimes as you get stiffer with the suspension you just can't take as much curbing.

Yes the suspension is costing me some time. With a good custom valved setup and the right spring rates we could go lower, and run more negative camber which should allow for more corner speed. With that said I think it's valved very well and very well balanced as is. Just adding more negative camber would help a ton!

Originally Posted by Tainen

yeah, once you change out the coilovers, it really won't matter.

I hope no one with actual track aspirations goes staggered setup on this car.

I think it's going to be a must when adding power. Right now my setup wouldn't allow me to turn full lock, not a big deal for a track car, but probably an issue with some autocross courses. So the front tire width will be limited and then when we start trying to put down 400 whp+ we are going to need as much rear tire as we can get.

For the average Joe if we can get a 265 rear and front to fit great but you may need a 245 front for full steering range without rubbing.

As is the car is perfectly balanced for my driving style with equally sized front and rear tires and at OEM power levels not much need to change this orientation.

[Tainen]

good point. I guess with significantly more power to the rear wheels, staggered would make some amount of sense- but anywhere near stock power levels, it seems equal sizes will be the best. The stock suspension is so good, it'd be tough to want to mess with that. I've read that some people that put on the stock rear sway from the WRX are having some oversteer problems, and like you said earlier, I think people will haveto be careful not to degrade handling.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Tainen

good point. I guess with significantly more power to the rear wheels, staggered would make some amount of sense- but anywhere near stock power levels, it seems equal sizes will be the best. The stock suspension is so good, it'd be tough to want to mess with that. I've read that some people that put on the stock rear sway from the WRX are having some oversteer problems, and like you said earlier, I think people will haveto be careful not to degrade handling.

A bigger rear sway bar only would be the last thing in the world I would do (At least on FRS). They should both be upgraded but honestly as you dial in a race car you really put less emphasis on the sway bars and more on your spring rates. If you go too crazy with sway bars you can't use any curbing.

I think some people jumped the gun following maybe traditional Subaru mods but when you are developing a chassis you really need to run the car stock to note balance, grip, etc so you know what to actually improve.



Looks like it has 500 HP just sitting there. LOL! Seriously "Butch!"

[phm14]

So you got no brake fade from the stock brakes? Did you check pad wear? If the stock suspension handles a track flogging with slicks this well, it should be even better with my 235 Star Specs. Phil, what speeds were you hitting on the big straight? Nice if I can put coilovers and $300. track pads off for a while. Thanks for the input.

[TheRipler]

Great thread! Thanks for posting it.

What size/offset are the wheels? What kind of Hoosiers are you running there? Looks mean. Are they poking out a little from the fender?

I'm looking at some R6s for my STi, and wouldn't mind if they could also fit the BRZ.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by phm14

So you got no brake fade from the stock brakes? Did you check pad wear? If the stock suspension handles a track flogging with slicks this well, it should be even better with my 235 Star Specs. Phil, what speeds were you hitting on the big straight? Nice if I can put coilovers and $300. track pads off for a while. Thanks for the input.

No I didn't get brake fade or really even a soft pedal. What it lacked was friction which race pads should fix. The problem then becomes the race pads will push more heat into the calipers and then brake pad can be an issue.

I honestly used such little brake it doesn't surprise me they held up so well and pad wear wasn't crazy. I think for many pads and brake ducting should be adequate. With less sticky tires people will be using more brake than I did.

As for the front straight speed, I have no idea. I ran 4th gear to just shy of the rev limiter and then I was in 5th gear for 4 seconds.