Random thoughts thread

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's not, if you know what you're doing. The difficulty from a DIY perspective is access to a mill and/or lathe plus all the tooling. If you have a LOT of time, patience and attention to detail, you can substitute a drill press, bandsaw and files for a mill. But after one time, you'll never want to do it again...

This has been a source of endless frustration for me over the past 3 years.

When I was in 8th grade I was extremely stupid and attempted to make my own waterblocks (for computer) with a dremel and hand held drill. I think I know what you're talking about. I later got access to an old mill, but gave up and just cut a few holes in with a drill press and called it a day.

Anyway, I think if I were to get an MR-S someday I would probably keep the engine mostly stock, perhaps reroute the exhaust so it doesn't stick out the bumper like that (bad for aero) but that's it. Maybe a DIY cooled EGR for hypermiling rofl. When the 1ZZ finally gives up, I might try to do something exciting with it.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by blur

Typical response for some asking help with suspension tuning... I dont know why anyone without track experience asking for help with suspension always gets shot down.

It's because, most of the time, people without track experience don't ask the right questions or provide enough information. Either they ask vague questions, the answers to which are very long and contain multiple caveats and variables, or they ask questions that simply can't be answered by random strangers on the internet. Even on huge budget race teams suspension tuning is just a series of informed guesses and the more information you have the better guesses you can make. Asking someone on the internet for suspension advice with little to no information is like telling your doctor that your stomach hurts and then immediately demanding that he write you a prescription.

Originally Posted by blur

I know that driving the car around a track isn't magically going to help me understand what spring rates my car needs either.

It isn't supposed to, and I never suggested it would.

Originally Posted by blur

The only burning desire I have is not wasting money on a 20mm when I really need a 24mm. Like I said before, I am looking for a neutral setup, not a perfect setup.

Modifying and tracking cars is an exercise in wasting money. But anyway, that's why I recommended an adjustable sway bar. A 22mm adjustable swaybar can be the equivalent of a 20mm or 24mm bar depending on which holes you attach your endlinks to.

Originally Posted by blur

It understeers EVERYWHERE. A 20mm swaybar should have been a factory accessory. You must understand, I know how the car feels and that's why I am concerned about tracking it.

Understeer isn't going to kill you, just slow you down. But given that you have no autoX or track experience yet, it's not as if you'd be competitive anyway.

The absolute best thing you can do right now is to work on your driving. Like I said earlier, if it's that big of a deal buy an adjustable rear swaybar. After a few autoX events, maybe even make an alignment change. But your focus should be on tightening the nut behind the wheel rather than screwing with the suspension.

Originally Posted by blur

Do you have any track experience with a FWD double wishbone?

FWD and double wishbones: AutoX. RWD and double wishbones: AutoX and track.

[blur]

Originally Posted by old greg

Understeer isn't going to kill you, just slow you down. But given that you have no autoX or track experience yet, it's not as if you'd be competitive anyway.

The absolute best thing you can do right now is to work on your driving. Like I said earlier, if it's that big of a deal buy an adjustable rear swaybar. After a few autoX events, maybe even make an alignment change. But your focus should be on tightening the nut behind the wheel rather than screwing with the suspension.

What if I'm not trying to be competitive? I can't adjust my suspension unless I'm a seasoned vet racing door to door? I don't understand that mentality. Extremely condescending of you. Driving is the easy and fun part... and it does NOT teach you how to tune your car. When you mentioned getting an alignment done, I assume you mean to non-oem specs.... how would I know what to run? Or would my driving experience magically help me? I've seen people racing for years asking for help with racing alignment. Driving experience and knowing how to tune suspension is NOT related at all. There are many mechanics that don't know how to drive but can set up a car to drive like it's on rails.

The way cars are tuned nowadays, all people do is borrow someone else's setups or advice based on their experience in experimentation on that platform. There is no science or physics in it whatsoever. Now this is fine and dandy, until someone decides to race a car that isn't a popular tuning platform. The forum for my accord is full of hellaflush guys that don't even know what a double wishbone is(not kidding). Hence why I ask for a more scientific based approach to suspension tuning.

Anyway, I think I found something on the web that pertains to my approach, thanks for your suggestion of an adjustable 22mm sway though.

[old greg]

You make one change at a time and see if it makes the car faster or slower. That's all there is to it, whether you're in local autocrossing or Formula 1. Math, science, instrumentation/datalogging etc. can help you decide which parameter to change and which direction to change it in, experience can help you decide how much to change it by. But in the end you take a guess, you make a change, and you see what happens. If it's better change it some more, if it's worse change it back.

Start reading if you want to learn. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Win-science-development-tuning/dp/0879380713"]Carroll Smith[/ame] and [ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Racing-High-Performance-Tire-Balance/dp/0768012414"]Paul Haney[/ame] are a good place to start. Just understand that the rabbit hole goes very, very deep.

[M-17]

Here you go Exhaust and all other Supra maniacs.

This is long over due, but here's that Supra I mentioned a long time ago.

[blur]

Originally Posted by old greg

You make one change at a time and see if it makes the car faster or slower. That's all there is to it, whether you're in local autocrossing or Formula 1. Math, science, instrumentation/datalogging etc. can help you decide which parameter to change and which direction to change it in, experience can help you decide how much to change it by. But in the end you take a guess, you make a change, and you see what happens. If it's better change it some more, if it's worse change it back.

Start reading if you want to learn. Carroll Smith and Paul Haney are a good place to start. Just understand that the rabbit hole goes very, very deep.

Wow Caroll Smith's tune to win is an awesome read(I'm scrolling through the amazon preview). Thanks!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

When I was in 8th grade I was extremely stupid and attempted to make my own waterblocks (for computer) with a dremel and hand held drill. I think I know what you're talking about. I later got access to an old mill, but gave up and just cut a few holes in with a drill press and called it a day.

Anyway, I think if I were to get an MR-S someday I would probably keep the engine mostly stock, perhaps reroute the exhaust so it doesn't stick out the bumper like that (bad for aero) but that's it. Maybe a DIY cooled EGR for hypermiling rofl. When the 1ZZ finally gives up, I might try to do something exciting with it.

Pre apprenticeship project was to make a sliding block and plate out of mild steel with hand tools to a tolerance of +/ .001". Never again.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Pre apprenticeship project was to make a sliding block and plate out of mild steel with hand tools to a tolerance of +/ .001". Never again.

Oh. My. God.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Oh. My. God.

Makes you think about how we had jets and spaceflight before the magical CNC machines...

[S2kphile]

Apparently I heard that the girl at my gym is crushing on me. Do I ask her out for drinks or just leave it alone? I prefer not to mix business with pleasure. Hmmm...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Makes you think about how we had jets and spaceflight before the magical CNC machines...

Even with CNC, I have mad respect for people who do this machining type stuff...getting the CNC machines to do what you want is hard enough already. (I have zero tolerance for computer busywork lol)

[Guff]

Originally Posted by M-17

Here you go Exhaust and all other Supra maniacs.

This is long over due, but here's that Supra I mentioned a long time ago.

[Giccin]

I think I saw my friend's dad in an FRS.

Thing is.. he's in his late 50s and there was a rather... mid early 20s lady in the car with him. ;o

[Guff]

Originally Posted by Giccin

I think I saw my friend's dad in an FRS.

Thing is.. he's in his late 50s and there was a rather... mid early 20s lady in the car with him. ;o