FRS Test Drive from Cayman S / Exige Owners Perspective *WITH PICS*

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by enigma

Yeah, definitely in full agreement about the engine. It just doesn't *sound* exciting at all. Very coarse and very, well, you said it: appliance-like. After I drove one, I felt like all that "passion" that Toyota talked on and on about shone through in the chassis and suspension tuning, but that they got done designing the chassis and dialed in the suspension and then went "Crap. We forgot to put an engine in this thing... Erm.. uh... let's just throw this thing in here..." (Obviously I know better in terms of what really happened).

Coming from an S2000 (and the C30A in my NSX before it... best... V6... ever), the FA20 is a bit of a disappointment, but I think the rest of the car is good enough to make up for the engine's shortcomings; both power wise and refinement wise.

Well, to be fair, those Honda VTEC engines were high strung like a superbike or race engine so no wonder they sound impressive. Subaru boxer engines have never been known for sounding melodic like a Honda or Ferrari. Instead, they focused on the advantages of a Boxer with a low CoG. Do I think they could have done a bit more work to make it sound better? Yeah. They should have went to Yamaha like they did with the LFA. But there's still time to improve that with a future model or upgrades.

And personally, although I only got it up to 4 or 5k, I thought it sounded fine. And some people say they really like how it sounds. So it's all personal opinion I guess.

[Sasquachulator]

The thing with the engine, being a boxer it doesnt have the kind of refined smoothness from some of the best 4 bangers (like hondas) but it also doesnt have that burbly sound that is the trademark of the subaru boxer. Its sound is somewhere in between. Its smoother than the typical subaru boxer, but its growly compared to an inline4.

At least thats how I would describe it.

[Godzpeed]

I havn't driven my Cayman S for months, but I still find the Cayman, or even Boxster are still far more ahead than the 86 in terms of balance, feel and performance. the 86 is the closest thing to it. Just like how the G35 was closest car to feel like a BMW. But there is still that japanese feeling to it. It just does not feel its as well built as german cars.

The new FA20 should have more down low torque than the bug eye WRXs, but once the turbo kick in, the WRX is still far more powerful. But I agree that the NA FA20 is far more usable.

[Natheria]

Wow, they have ACTUAL customer reserved parking? Every time i go to a dealership for something it seems like i have to make 1 or 2 circles around the main building to find a spot...

Also very nice down to earth review (and love me them Cayman/Exige shots too! Real awesome to see two of my more favorite cars next to the FRS).

[Rosso_Corsa]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Would you say the Cayman engine is the smoothest you've driven? If not, what was?

It is very smooth and very torquey, but I wouldn't say it's the smoothest I've ever driven. I really have to think about that one, but I would probably say something like a BMW 3 series inline six, back before they turbo charged them. Like an E46 325i where it was small and had all those perfectly balanced cylinders. It spun like a turbine.

Kind of a weird answer because the car was so non-exotic, but they were really, really smooth!

I enjoyed the comments about engines and Honda motors in particular. Definitely in agreement there. This is why I don't think the FRS lacks torque at all. For those of us who grew up with Honda motors, we all know that less torque is a small price to pay for a manic top end. The FRS does not have a manic top end, but it pays you back with a very usable low end. I guess it's a matter of perspective. If you grew up driving American muscle cars, everything will feel gutless down low.

I really dig the FRS. I just need an excuse to get one. Maybe next year.

[scioneric]

I wish I can afford a cayman R

[Ashe]

In regards to the Steering feel, I wonder how much of that is because the steering is electric, instead of the more traditional types.

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

Hi guys,

I currently own an '06 Cayman S and my buddy owns an Exige S. We have both been extremely curious about the FRS/ BRZ and took one for a drive today.

Since the Cayman S has been repeatedly touted as the benchmark for the development of this car, you may be interested in my impressions. At least, I have been extremely curious to see how this sub 30k car compares to mine.

Let's start with some pictures.





Certainly the FRS's dimensions are extremely attractive. It does not take up much more space than my Cayman, but has two extra rear seats reminiscent of my previous Porsche 996 Cabrio, and even has a cavernous trunk which was super impressive. I love this trunk! I am a hobbyist photographer and it will fit all of my gear, which the Cayman cannot do.

It also looks much better in person than in pictures. I did not like the front bumper nor the rear diffuser in pictures, but they look fine in person. It's a very attractive, tight looking package.

So, some driving impressions:

- Extremely good suspension. Firm yet supple at the same time. This is BMW territory. It's so much more comfortable than my lowered Cayman S with H&R and reminds me of the best BMWs like the 3 series.
- Very balanced feeling in the corners. The front feels very effortless to turn in, and the rear feels quite adjustable with the throttle provided you're in the powerband.
- Steering is very quick, but the feel on-center is a bit vague (does not feel locked on like the Porsche or hyper connected like the Lotus, and does not have as much feedback as either). It's a good feeling steering, but not great. However, it is at least as good as my previous AP2 S2000. In this price range, it does not compare well to the NC Miata. But the Miata also does not come in coupe and does not have as stiff of a structure as the FRS.
- I wish I could've tried the manual, but the auto was not bad. Rev matches on downshifts but it's still got a torque converter so that hurts throttle response. I think a manual would feel better so I would reserve judgement on that.
- The engine is not bad at all for power. We had four people in the car (4 dudes, actually) and I did not feel it was slow. Very decent actually. Yes, the engine won't come alive until 5k rpm+, but in a manual it should feel better and without a full load it should also feel better. No way is it Cayman S torquey, and no way is it Exige crazy, but it is plenty powerful enough for street use. In fact, if you drive within the powerband, ie 5krpm +, it will be mighty fast.
- It is way torquier than say the original WRX.
- What I did not like was the noise. It's rough, coarse and unrefined. Reminded me of my '02 Impreza's motor.
- The interior looks good in pictures, but the materials are quite nasty in person. Seat material, dash material, everything feels very cheap. However, this car IS very cheap. Maybe the Subaru is better. However, for what you get in suspension, chassis, handling, it is well worth the asking price.
- In summary, this is the best car I have EVER driven in the sub $30k price. I have never ever found a car that has handling this good, looks this good, is this practical, or has this much polish in the driving feel as this FRS.

Am I ready to sell my Cayman S and get one of these instead? Not yet.

The Cayman is faster, torquier, more polished and refined, has a better interior, and has the Porsche badge. Also it steers much better, to the contrary of a review I just read which said that the FRS has better steering than a Cayman. This is false.

But if I were in the market right now for a car, any car, it would be the FRS.

What a tremendously good value. This is the best car that has ever been made for under $30k brand new. IMHO.

The kids who are just starting out or just buying their first new car, you are living in good times. But maybe leave the drifting to Ken Block.

You know i just have 1 question why on earth would you drive the auto and compare it to those 2 legends with 1 1/2 arms tied behind its back? Wow...this is amazing....lol

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa

I agree with you that rawness in an engine is fun and inspires character.

However, there is melodic rawness (American V8s, Honda S2000, Integra Type R, etc.) and then there is unmelodic rawness. The FRS's engine, to me, is definitely in the latter category. It just does not sound nice. Like a sewing machine. In the same price category, the Miata has a nicer engine. The 370Z has a nicer engine. They sound better (370Z), feel smoother (Miata), rev happier (Miata) and feel more like instruments rather than appliances.

Just my humble opinion, of course there will be others that love this engine.

I dont know about the 370z that things sounds horrible it sounds like a remote control airplane.The FRS is very matter of fact sounding like much like the 70's and early 80's 911's....i like its raw wash machine type sound....its definetly not a smooth sound though..lol

[nedmundo]

Originally Posted by Ashe

In regards to the Steering feel, I wonder how much of that is because the steering is electric, instead of the more traditional types.

Probably, but for an electric system the FR-S's steering is very good IMO. Based on my test drive, I completely agree with the OP's description. It doesn't have strong on-center feel, and it lacks the granular feedback of a good hydraulic setup, but at least it provides information about grip levels well before the limit, which is more than most electric systems provide. It's way better than the steering in the new BMW 328i, for example, which is almost completely numb. I could be happy with it, but I hope they tighten it up on center.

I wonder how it compares to the electrically assisted setups in the new Boxter ans 911.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Originally Posted by Tbomb 25

You know i just have 1 question why on earth would you drive the auto and compare it to those 2 legends with 1 1/2 arms tied behind its back? Wow...this is amazing....lol

Because the dealer did not have a manual to test drive and told me never will.

Also, going to a manual does not change suspension. It does not change the steering. It does not change the brakes. It does not change the handling.

It does change the throttle response, how it moves off the line, and the feel of the motor somewhat. It will be better, I imagine, but won't turn it into a completely different car.

I agree though, I would only buy one in manual.

Probably, but for an electric system the FR-S's steering is very good IMO. Based on my test drive, I completely agree with the OP's description. It doesn't have strong on-center feel, and it lacks the granular feedback of a good hydraulic setup, but at least it provides information about grip levels well before the limit, which is more than most electric systems provide. It's way better than the steering in the new BMW 328i, for example, which is almost completely numb. I could be happy with it, but I hope they tighten it up on center.

I wonder how it compares to the electrically assisted setups in the new Boxter ans 911.

Interesting to know about the new 328i. I've been curious about that one as well. I don't understand why everyone is going electric. Probably for efficiency.

[JRitt]

Thanks for the review.

It looks like someone dropped a birthday cake on the hood of that poor FR-S!

[feldy]

question did you turn the nannies off and put it in sport mode?

[Rosso_Corsa]

Originally Posted by feldy

question did you turn the nannies off and put it in sport mode?

The dealer had me specifically sign a document stating that I will NOT turn off the traction control. This is kind of funny and tells you about the sorts of test pilots they must be getting.

It won't make a difference in my review. I'm not good enough of a driver anyway, and it was in the city.

I'll leave the 'drift tests' to the Playstation trained, web forum race drivers.

If by sport mode you mean moving the gear lever in the transmission, then yes. I was using the paddle shifters. This also does not matter because I would be buying one in manual.

I have a feeling that this car will soon be very expensive to insure...