left-foot braking with AT

[Packofcrows]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

While I very much agree. PC>>>>>>> console. But a mouse and keyboard would be insanely hard to use while being thrown around inside a car

Challenge accepted.

[soulreapersteve]

Once again, night shift made me miss the cool threads.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ohhh about half so a million or so were spent behind the wheel of an AT.
None using my left foot to brake because it is just a dumb way to drive.
Does this answer meet your strict question response requirements?

I'd say that when comes to personal opinion about left foot braking my 50k beats your 0. Note I said "personal" - this tells us nothing about mine vs. yours theoretical reasoning or knowledge acquired from elsewhere.

Because we are trained to brake with the right foot, and we do it for years, it takes quite a lot of training to learn left-foot-braking (in the sense I am using it in the thread, not the performance technique). Initially one tends to slam on the brake far too hard, this is my experience and the experience of others who tried just a few times (see comments under the Jalopnik text I linked above). This is because we learned use the left foot to control the clutch which does not require precisely controlled engage, only precisely controlled release. Maybe also because we have to learn how to control the positive feedback due to body inertia.

This is why I think that with my 50k I have much better understanding of advantages, disadvantages and limitations of LFB than people who never tried it, or tried it a few times, or just imagined how it would be to use their left foot for the purpose.

[softgrip]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

The while car is pretty much controlled by computer right? What if we just wired up an xbox controller and OP can use left trigger to brake

Use the right trigger to brake, but use the left hand. It works for OP.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by mdm

I'd say that when comes to personal opinion about left foot braking my 50k beats your 0. Note I said "personal" - this tells us nothing about mine vs. yours theoretical reasoning or knowledge acquired from elsewhere.

Because we are trained to brake with the right foot, and we do it for years, it takes quite a lot of training to learn left-foot-braking (in the sense I am using it in the thread, not the performance technique). Initially one tends to slam on the brake far too hard, this is my experience and the experience of others who tried just a few times (see comments under the Jalopnik text I linked above). This is because we learned use the left foot to control the clutch which does not require precisely controlled engage, only precisely controlled release. Maybe also because we have to learn how to control the positive feedback due to body inertia.

This is why I think that with my 50k I have much better understanding of advantages, disadvantages and limitations of LFB than people who never tried it, or tried it a few times, or just imagined how it would be to use their left foot for the purpose.

Do you rest both feet on both pedals?

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

This thread is going to get locked soon mdm has created a troll post and if he really does do this technique when he crashes next and hopefully survives he'll say he survived because of using two feet to drive an auto....

[mdm]

Originally Posted by Uplink

Ok, @mdm, so on sitting in the car I immediately had a *facepalm* realization in that what you were asking many of us have done literally hundreds of thousands of times... Blipping the throttle under braking to rev match for the next gear. If the system cut power when both pedals were depressed, you wouldn't be able to do this.

I found nothing about that in the manual. But the FR-S website says:
"SST helps reduce engine power when both the brake and gas pedals are pressed at the same time under certain conditions. In normal driving conditions, you won't notice SST, as it is imperceptible. The feature doesn't engage if the brake pedal is depressed before the accelerator pedal. This allows time for the driver to move from brake to acceleration."

So rev matching should be fine as you press the brake first. Trying to accelerate while still left-foot-braking should be fine too. The system should kick in if I start braking (with my left foot) when the accelarator is (still) depressed. Which is good imo, it helps if switch from gas to brake in emergency is mistimed (if there is overlap) or if the driver panics and presses the brake while not releasing the accelerator at all.


But I was not concerned too much about the SST, I was concerned about Brake Assists, which increases braking force when it "thinks" that this is an emergency stop. The question if what criteria are used to detect an emergency stop. If time from gas to brake is one of them, then the system could potentially kick in when the time is short not because of emergency, but because left-foot braking was used, and change intended gentle braking into a panic stop.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

Do you rest both feet on both pedals?

No, I normally keep the left foot above the brake pedal. If I suspect that I may have to brake soon, I may lower it a bit to touch the pedal, but withour engaging the brakes or the break light unless it is necessary.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by mdm

I found nothing about that in the manual. But the FR-S website says:
"SST helps reduce engine power when both the brake and gas pedals are pressed at the same time under certain conditions. In normal driving conditions, you won't notice SST, as it is imperceptible. The feature doesn't engage if the brake pedal is depressed before the accelerator pedal. This allows time for the driver to move from brake to acceleration."

So rev matching should be fine as you press the brake first. Trying to accelerate while still left-foot-braking should be fine too. The system should kick in if I start braking (with my left foot) when the accelarator is (still) depressed. Which is good imo, it helps if switch from gas to brake in emergency is mistimed (if there is overlap) or if the driver panics and presses the brake while not releasing the accelerator at all.


But I was not concerned too much about the SST, I was concerned about Brake Assists, which increases braking force when it "thinks" that this is an emergency stop. The question if what criteria are used to detect an emergency stop. If time from gas to brake is one of them, then the system could potentially kick in when the time is short not because of emergency, but because left-foot braking was used, and change intended gentle braking into a panic stop.

Ok, that explains why rev matching would work. The second test I did was with the gas depressed first and held and didn't notice SST.

Honestly, in 15k with the car, a significant amount of that being performance driving with and without LFB, I have never once noticed or even knew about SST yet have had all the other nannies engage at one point or another. Unless there's some major difference between the MT/AT, it should be a non-issue. Most likely, SST parameters only trip in a foot-through-the-firewall pucker moment or at least so far into the pedals you'll hopefully never see it on the street. Either way, the car has never applied more brakes than I wanted. Even coming into a braking zone WAY hot, the braking feel was very linear and intuitive with relation to pedal position/effort, never 10%-20%-30%-100%.

In the end, you may have to see if someone local with an AT will let you try it and see how you like it or if it drives as expected.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by Uplink

Ok, that explains why rev matching would work. The second test I did was with the gas depressed first and held and didn't notice SST.

What model year do you have? Would be worth checking whether SST was installed in earlier models.

Originally Posted by Uplink

In the end, you may have to see if someone local with an AT will let you try it and see how you like it or if it drives as expected.

Ha ha, judging from the responses in the thread, no one would ever allow me near their cars. Anyway, if it ever comes to seriously considering the purchase, I'll obviously take it for a thorough test drive. Hope the dealership guy won't kick me out of the car for LFB ;-).

[Captain Snooze]

Many opinions, no hard data.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

Once again, night shift made me miss the cool threads.

Fuck night shift. Been there done that

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

None using my left foot to brake because it is just a dumb way to drive.

Why is it dumb?

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by mdm

What model year do you have? Would be worth checking whether SST was installed in earlier models.

Ha ha, judging from the responses in the thread, no one would ever allow me near their cars. Anyway, if it ever comes to seriously considering the purchase, I'll obviously take it for a thorough test drive. Hope the dealership guy won't kick me out of the car for LFB ;-).

I have a '15.

You'll be fine, just don't...

Unless that's your commute. In which case I want your job.