Random thoughts thread

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by old greg

Not exactly sure what you're saying... Mech. efficiency in this case would be work into the pulley / work into the air. If your compressor map already has power consumption info (Lysholm, or proprietary Eaton data) then yeah, it's already accounted for. If you need to work back from Adiabatic Efficiency and Flow rate, then no.

Oh I see, you're saying adiabatic efficiency is not net efficiency...darn.

Hmmm I just thought of an interesting MR-S swap...Honda CRZ drivetrain? :O
SOHC and low redline kinda suck massive balls, but I think Spoon has a kit that will bump the redline to a healthier 7500 or something...

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Oh I see, you're saying adiabatic efficiency is not net efficiency...darn.

Hmmm I just thought of an interesting MR-S swap...Honda CRZ drivetrain? :O
SOHC and low redline kinda suck massive balls, but I think Spoon has a kit that will bump the redline to a healthier 7500 or something...

I'd choose the older L15 from the Fit personally, mated to the CRZ's 6spd. I looked into use the Fit as a donor for a RWD setup. But even though it does get better MPG than a 2.0L, there's just not much support beyond turbo kits.

I'd like to use the Focus' new GDI engine, somebody got 175WHP N/A with just bolt-ons recently

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I'd choose the older L15 from the Fit personally, mated to the CRZ's 6spd. I looked into use the Fit as a donor for a RWD setup. But even though it does get better MPG than a 2.0L, there's just not much support beyond turbo kits.

I'd like to use the Focus' new GDI engine, somebody got 175WHP N/A with just bolt-ons recently

mmm what I am thinking is that the CRZ's hybrid system would be a total pain in the ass to put in...and hence a lot of fun to try and rig up!

6500rpm or whatever is just too low though, but if the redline gets raised the electric motor control needs to be hacked to let it work at higher speed which might not be fun :/

Can it be installed independently?

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

mmm what I am thinking is that the CRZ's hybrid system would be a total pain in the ass to put in...and hence a lot of fun to try and rig up!

6500rpm or whatever is just too low though, but if the redline gets raised the electric motor control needs to be hacked to let it work at higher speed which might not be fun :/

Can it be installed independently?

That's why I like the Fit's engine better, it's got a higher rev line and peak power.

Don't forget the battery pack needs to be put somewhere. The CR-Z has a pretty small pack but it's still going to take up space and it's a good 75lbs. I'm not sure how big it is but it's probably close to a small-medium fuel tank in size.

[rcm47]

Boxing is dead.

[S2kphile]

Originally Posted by rcm47

Boxing is dead.

Yes it is. Worst decision I have ever seen.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

That's why I like the Fit's engine better, it's got a higher rev line and peak power.

Don't forget the battery pack needs to be put somewhere. The CR-Z has a pretty small pack but it's still going to take up space and it's a good 75lbs. I'm not sure how big it is but it's probably close to a small-medium fuel tank in size.

Yea... but the Fit's engine still has a somewhat weak rev limit :/ Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that a high rev limit was one of those priceless things on a car...even if I've never taken a car past 6000rpm! lol. But I guess you can always give it forged rods and shit, and hope that the ECU cooperates.

Yes the battery needs to go somewhere...I dunno, gut the front subframe? I wonder how hard it would be to retrofit a supercapacitor bank. Inductors between battery pack and supercapacitors...lol nvm terrible idea.

But yea, supercharged CRZ guts in an MRS would be hilarious, wonder how hard it would be to actually do. Retrofitting an entire DIY system to the original car is probably easier

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yea... but the Fit's engine still has a somewhat weak rev limit :/ Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that a high rev limit was one of those priceless things on a car...even if I've never taken a car past 6000rpm! lol. But I guess you can always give it forged rods and shit, and hope that the ECU cooperates.

Yes the battery needs to go somewhere...I dunno, gut the front subframe? I wonder how hard it would be to retrofit a supercapacitor bank. Inductors between battery pack and supercapacitors...lol this sounds like a really terrible idea.

Go back to 2ZZGE thoughts. Mileage will be acceptable. Then maybe look into twin screw Lysholm SCs and if their drive power is accounted for in their efficiency it may be a suitable replacement for your Roots idea (but add an EM clutch as well as bypass, SC MR2 did that).

Honda gave up on ultracapacitors? Insight had ultracapacitors.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Go back to 2ZZGE thoughts. Mileage will be acceptable. Then maybe look into twin screw Lysholm SCs and if their drive power is accounted for in their efficiency it may be a suitable replacement for your Roots idea (but add an EM clutch as well as bypass, SC MR2 did that).

Honda gave up on ultracapacitors? Insight had ultracapacitors.

Nah, Lysholm SCs are all designed for high pressure ratios, I don't like the idea of crazy boost, just modest boost. 5th gen Eaton blowers are the best for low boost I think, as the TVS ones are somewhat high pressure ratio oriented too. The thing with 2ZZ swap is that the 2ZZ has so much power already, and fits easily. An LEA swap would be interesting because at 1.5L there's a lot of room to mess around with stuff without hurting fuel economy much, and having a "sport" hybrid system is just cool IMO. I believe there are ways to manually control the IMA assist, so I guess ditching the stock ECU controls completely and manually controlling everything is an option

I didn't say they gave up on ultracapacitors :O I'm just pretty sure no one's implemented them in a road car yet.

Ultimately, it would be nice to have a BRZ/FRS type hybrid sport but that won't happen for a while.

[Exhaust]

Went to a friend of mine's apartment and came across a ford taurus SHO in the parking lot. When I first noticed it I did a double take... then I turned around just to look at the front end seeing how it was just so aggressive. Did a walk around and noticed it was a ford. Went inside and right away I had to google the car, never heard or seen it previously and I was pretty impressed with the numbers. Minus the weight... front wheel drive... and it simply being a beefed up fuel economy lol.

[blur]

Anyone know of a guide to properly setting up track suspension? On a FWD double wishbone preferably. I'm looking to get a good base tune without the use of coilovers, just struts/ springs/ sways/ camber/ spherical bearings. Things that are confusing me are spring rates, dampening, bump stiffness, droop, and how they all come together to make a FWD turn in better.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by blur

Anyone know of a guide to properly setting up track suspension? On a FWD double wishbone preferably. I'm looking to get a good base tune without the use of coilovers, just struts/ springs/ sways/ camber/ spherical bearings. Things that are confusing me are spring rates, dampening, bump stiffness, droop, and how they all come together to make a FWD turn in better.

Old Greg and RCE can help.

I can try, too. First things you're going to want to start with are finding out the following:

Car's weight as raced (fluids and driver)
Car's unsprung weight (weight of wheels,tires, hubs, brakes and half the weight of control arms, shocks and springs)
Car's F/R weight split
Car's CoG
Car's track F and R
Car's wheelbase
Motion ratios of the suspension. This is how much the suspension compresses relative to the wheel movement and it affects the spring rates at the wheel
Mounting angle of the springs and shocks (also affects rate at the wheel)
Car's roll center if it can be found (geometry for doublewishbone is complex)
Camber change under compression and droop (change as it rolls)

With these you can start to figure out the car's potential weight transfer and stiffness, plus come up with some targets for spring rates, and roll resistance. Then pick the spring and bars available that come closest to what you want. Then pick a shock that matches the new spring rates (call the shock companies for advice).

I'm working on figuring out roll resistance on the Twins in my spare time and it's a PITA...

[blur]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Old Greg and RCE can help.

I can try, too. First things you're going to want to start with are finding out the following:

Car's weight as raced (fluids and driver)
Car's unsprung weight (weight of wheels,tires, hubs, brakes and half the weight of control arms, shocks and springs)
Car's F/R weight split
Car's CoG
Car's track F and R
Car's wheelbase
Motion ratios of the suspension. This is how much the suspension compresses relative to the wheel movement and it affects the spring rates at the wheel
Mounting angle of the springs and shocks (also affects rate at the wheel)
Car's roll center if it can be found (geometry for doublewishbone is complex)
Camber change under compression and droop (change as it rolls)

With these you can start to figure out the car's potential weight transfer and stiffness, plus come up with some targets for spring rates, and roll resistance. Then pick the spring and bars available that come closest to what you want. Then pick a shock that matches the new spring rates (call the shock companies for advice).

I'm working on figuring out roll resistance on the Twins in my spare time and it's a PITA...

Wow thanks a lot... very helpful. As I understand it though I can get my shocks re valved as necessary, so the shocks I have in mind are bilstein sports. What to do you mean by pick a shock that matches the spring rates?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by blur

Wow thanks a lot... very helpful. As I understand it though I can get my shocks re valved as necessary, so the shocks I have in mind are bilstein sports. What to do you mean by pick a shock that matches the spring rates?

If you look at RCE's post in Suspension, they have a graph of the 'curve' of the stock BRZ shocks. The curve is set up to match the springs and weight of the car. That curve is the result of the valving in the shock. But there is generally a range in which they work. For example RCE measured them on their shock dyno and decided that they will still work with the rates of their choice of 250 lbs/in lowering springs (stock BRZ is 185 lbs/in front and rear).

Since Bilstein is a top quality shock company if you contact them and tell them what your vehicle setup and intended use is they will probably be able to recommend a suitable shock.