Tsudo UEL header now selling for $288 shipped!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

I own a business too so I have a little understanding of why businesses charge what they do. You know why I charge what I do for my services, because it's what I want and I get it. It really is that simple.
When what the customer wants to pay and what I want to be paid gets close, everybody walks away happy. I don't think anybody is happy paying $1k for a few metal tubes welded together. Am I wrong?
Back to the real topic...I did a Google search on the Tsudo UEL header and it all seems to be in good order.

I have to ask... do you use the $20 no-name 800W power supply, or one from a proven brand/OEM?

If you're just looking for "a few metal tubes welded together", then a sub $400 header will do that for you. If you want something actually engineered to perform, then, it's gonna be a little bit more than $400.

[malubawla]

Sticking to the original post, I as a user agree that the Tsudo header is well built (over 2.5 years no issues), performs well per my dyno day sheets (top performing setup), and is a value at the price.

To end all the pricing debates, remember it costs money to test and build new products. Its substantially cheaper for some other company to copy a similar design and sell it cheaper. Use that mentality when deciding what brand you want to support. Also, more expensive is not always better same as cheaper is not always inferior.

The best thing about a forum like this is that various members have different setups and its easy to compare. Some will choose a product that gives them peace of mind that the quality is top notch, others will choose a product that performs well at a value price point.

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by celek

Because the good parts made in America use $30+ per hour welders and $400 in quality Materials while your last car ( I assume Honda) have mass produced slave wage Asian sweat shops reproducing other companies design with inferior materials.

Not singling anybody out but here but just as an example I looked up a more expensive header and aren't Ace headers made in Taiwan? I know my DC sports header was built in CA in the U.S. and is made from T304 stainless steel and not inferior quality at all.
No point in arguing this as some people just like to spend money to make them feel better about their purchases. This goes for not just the automobile aftermarket parts industry but also clothing, electronics, etc. Sorry, I know what $350 will buy when it comes to a decent header and am not impressed with what the 86 aftermarket is doing to us for prices.

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I have to ask... do you use the $20 no-name 800W power supply, or one from a proven brand/OEM?

I just buy the one that fits the power needed to run everything, long warranty, and is power efficient and has many good reviews. Last build had a $120 EVGA and the cheapest/crappiest(just looked it up) one I could find is $50, so that is about less than half of what I bought. The thing is it's only $75 difference and not $900 for just one part. You do the same with all those parts for the computer and you will save maybe a couple hundred dollars and get a iffy machine but you do the same with a car and not buy the most expensive parts and go more reasonable it will save you thousands of dollars and have a few less HP and parts that may or may not have been copied or made with less than $30 per hour labor. I'll take the few less HP on my car for thousands less and the monster build computer for a few hundred more every time.

Similarly, this may sound crazy if you are heavy into mountain biking but, I don't spend the most possible on my bikes either. Instead of buying a $10K specialized bike I just bought a $1200 Motobecane. I wear white t-shirts that cost $2.50 a piece and not a designer brand for $40. You get where I am going with this? I said I was a cheapskate. I guess I am silly like that.

This is a conversation that I shouldn't be having with a vendor who sells expensive/better parts on here as it indirectly affects you. You don't need to defend some parts you sell and I don't want to appear as I'm attacking a vendor. You know what you sell are better, I know they are better, everybody in here knows they're better but some of us just want fr-s priced parts for the FR-S and not Porsche priced parts for a FR-S. If I wanted to spend another $5k in bolt-ons, I would have just sprung for a 370 and get the 332 HP and be done with it.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

I know my DC sports header was built in CA in the U.S. and is made from T304 stainless steel and not inferior quality at all.

hahahahahah

DC hasn't made headers in the US since they were bought out by Pilot Automotive close to 10 years ago.

http://www.pilotautomotive.com/about.html

-alex

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by mav1178

hahahahahah

DC hasn't made headers in the US since they were bought out by Pilot Automotive close to 10 years ago.

http://www.pilotautomotive.com/about.html

-alex

Hahahaha! I put the header in 10+ years ago. That was already addressed above.

Edit: just looked it up and it was about 12 years ago. Hahahahaha?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

I just buy the one that fits the power needed to run everything, long warranty, and is power efficient and has many good reviews. Last build had a $120 EVGA and the cheapest/crappiest(just looked it up) one I could find is $50, so that is about less than half of what I bought. The thing is it's only $75 difference and not $900 for just one part. You do the same with all those parts for the computer and you will save maybe a couple hundred dollars and get a iffy machine but you do the same with a car and not buy the most expensive parts and go more reasonable it will save you thousands of dollars and have a few less HP and parts that may or may not have been copied or made with less than $30 per hour labor. I'll take the few less HP on my car for thousands less and the monster build computer for a few hundred more every time.

Similarly, this may sound crazy if you are heavy into mountain biking but, I don't spend the most possible on my bikes either. Instead of buying a $10K specialized bike I just bought a $1200 Motobecane. I wear white t-shirts that cost $2.50 a piece and not a designer brand for $40. You get where I am going with this? I said I was a cheapskate. I guess I am silly like that.

This is a conversation that I shouldn't be having with a vendor who sells expensive/better parts on here as it indirectly affects you. You don't need to defend some parts you sell and I don't want to appear as I'm attacking a vendor. You know what you sell are better, I know they are better, everybody in here knows they're better but some of us just want fr-s priced parts for the FR-S and not Porsche priced parts for a FR-S. If I wanted to spend another $5k in bolt-ons, I would have just sprung for a 370 and get the 332 HP and be done with it.

My point is that you recognize quality when you are educated on the importance of a given component, and what the risks and ROI on that given component is.

A header is one of those components, where initially, you may realize a $900 savings, but when you factor in everything else (tune, other supporting mods, etc.), it's really a small percentage. To use your comparison, $75 part on a $1500 rig, is a relatively small percentage. Likewise, a $1500 dollar part on a $27000+ car, is a relatively small percentage. Sure, the absolute dollar amounts are different.

Does *any* catless header make gains? Absolutely. Are the gains the same among each header? Absolutely not. The Ace header optimizes the exhaust pulses from each cylinder to maximize scavenging. You can choose the RPM range of that maximum scavenging by choosing your final merge location (overpipe). It's also lighter than every other header on the market, simultaneously giving you a weight reduction in addition to the power gains. The power gains become VERY evident, when you realize how close to MBT you can get to with an Ace header, compared to any other header.

Origin of a component doesn't tell the whole story. I'm sure you don't worry that your computer components are also made in Taiwan. Or that your Samsung/Apple/whatever phone is made in China.

But then again, I'm a guy that uses a NH-D15S, not an OEM cooler or a cheap Thermaltake. Although, to be fair, my CPU doesn't include an OEM cooler. Both my cooler and CPU are well into diminishing returns territory, if you look at it from purely a performance/dollar perspective. The less tangible gains, are that that I can undervolt, while still getting a better overclock, simultaneously also netting me a reduction in heat, power useage, noise (because I don't need as much cooling), and a longer service life.

Paying more doesn't always get you a better product, but sometimes, it does.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

Hahahaha! I put the header in 10+ years ago. That was already addressed above.

Edit: just looked it up and it was about 12 years ago. Hahahahaha?

Which is why I find it so funny.

You keep bringing up DC Sports or "made in California for $350" as somehow relevant to this conversation in 2015.

Using your analogy about cost and price: you charge what you want because your customers are willing to pay for it, and you get what you want.

Same with headers, whether its $300 to justify your spending habits or $3000 to justify someone without a budget's spending habits.

You can pay more for something, but there's really no need to devalue it if it costs $100 to make or $1000 to make, or if it's made in California or Alaska or Taiwan or anywhere else in the world. Is it overpriced? That depends on what you are looking for. If all you can see are a "bunch of tubes welded together", then you won't see what other benefits may have come out of the R&D and production process, and no amount of convincing will work for you either.

-alex

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Which is why I find it so funny.

You keep bringing up DC Sports or "made in California for $350" as somehow relevant to this conversation in 2015.


-alex

It's relevant because it's 2015 and the OP is telling us about the Tsudo header he purchased for $288.

[Teseo]

Doesnt matter which header have better quality/gains,your local rice civic will pass you.
At the end of the day you got what you pay and whatever floats your boat. Right?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

It's relevant because it's 2015 and the OP is telling us about the Tsudo header he purchased for $288.

I'm glad a 12 year old product for a different car made by a company no longer in business (in its original form) is relevant to this 2015 discussion because the price point is similar.

-alex

[celek]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

Not singling anybody out but here but just as an example I looked up a more expensive header and aren't Ace headers made in Taiwan? I know my DC sports header was built in CA in the U.S. and is made from T304 stainless steel and not inferior quality at all.
No point in arguing this as some people just like to spend money to make them feel better about their purchases. This goes for not just the automobile aftermarket parts industry but also clothing, electronics, etc. Sorry, I know what $350 will buy when it comes to a decent header and am not impressed with what the 86 aftermarket is doing to us for prices.

I remember when Honda DC Sports headers were $800
Crower Rods were $1700
Arias Pistons Were $1200
Exaust systems were $1000
Full Civic Coilovers were $2800
Civic Type R B16B swaps were $7000 Used

You can not argue with me based on a 20 year old platform vs a 3 year old platform.
Especially on Headers when you have Honda and 8 simple bends that can be made in a CNC mandrel bender hundreds per hour. VS 12-16+ bends and more flanges hand welded taking 2+ hours to make 1.
You are also comparing mild steel DC sports to Full Stainless.

First to market can ask what ever they want especially when you have no other options. Yes other options are coming, they are cheaper, the QC is less, fitment can be horrible, people complaining already about the cheap version they bought they have to chop and re-weld.

Taiwan in not a bad manufacturing country compared to the 1970s but That is where China is today. Why did you not buy a $80 DC sports knockoff then or are you high and mighty with your brand name DC sports? PS I had a DC sports 4-1 JDM 2.5" collector on my last car from 1999 it finally rusted through in 2013. I am sure a cheap header would not have lasted that long.

Lastly a $400 header in 2000 at a minimum labor rate of $4.25 vs today's $7.25 is a 171% increase and inflation is even higher so your $400 Header then is now worth $684 proportionally to the average enthusiast. Hence Tomei, Borla and several other companies out there right now in that price range.

[Impureclient]

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

You need to take it easy bud, in some of the other posts you're condescending to some people that have way more experience with mods on this car than you do. There is a lot involved in a quality header that people have so aptly tried to explain to you it's not as simple as just welding some piping together so it fits which is probably what you get for a header that comes sub $370....