FT-86 / FR-S engine will be Toyota 2l turbo!!

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Standalones aren't 'made' for applications. They have inputs and outputs that are wired to sensors, injectors, ignition, etc... Some are available with plug and play harnesses but most are wired in.

The big deal with a standalone is that it will handle more than what a whole bunch of piggy-back systems, in a much cleaner install.

There are Universal configurations for standalones and there are standalones that they cater specifically for that vehicle. Example (Hydra has a specific listing for a tC and they have universal as well). I have never heard of anyone putting a ViPEC on a tC still, so not worth the hassle to try it out. Besides, I already have an EMS that works for me.

Originally Posted by Dimman

So in one box you get complete fuel and ignition control, complete boost control, 2-step, flatshift, traction control, individual cylinder trim, valve timing, etc... Plus stuff like dual injectors, staged nitrous, etc... if you want.

Should look into them for your next big step with the tC.

Other than boost control built in, I have all that other stuff listed. Don't need traction control. Traction control makes you slower. Secret is to keep it simple. When you start adjusting more and more parameters on this car, you introduce a whole list more of fail points. What I have now is already proven. You don't just go buy an EMS because it can do X, Y and Z. You have to have a competent tuner to tune that EMS. They are not all the same. Picking an EMS and then finding there is no one near you to tune it can leave you with a hole in your pocket. That is if you aren't prepared to travel to where there is a tuner to tune that EMS you just bought.

Aside from that, Standalone = Automatic fail at the emissions station provided by your state (should you live in a state that has emissions testing).

[Dragonitti]

I'm not doing any CVT. Manual gearbox only. If it comes in anything but a Manual then I won't be getting an FT-86, Subaru, Toyota or a Scion version of it.

[Franisco]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I'm not doing any CVT. Manual gearbox only. If it comes in anything but a Manual then I won't be getting an FT-86, Subaru, Toyota or a Scion version of it.

+1

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

You don't just go buy an EMS because it can do X, Y and Z. You have to have a competent tuner to tune that EMS. They are not all the same. Picking an EMS and then finding there is no one near you to tune it can leave you with a hole in your pocket. That is if you aren't prepared to travel to where there is a tuner to tune that EMS you just bought.

uhhh, sure.

I dunno about you, but if I had the time you did to make all these posts on all these forums, I'd put 900$ down on the software for the particular EMS you purchased for your car and learned to tune it myself.

"oh but it's so easy to fuck up and hard to test for gains"
Sure but consider this ;; Do you think your "local tuners" didn't blow some shit up learning wtf they were doing? Most tuning software comes with "HOLYSHIT" sensors when you change something significantly. I've seen the software for a Civic Si and its pretty idiot proof.

And how much do you pay one of your tuner buddies to change a few things here and there? I can't speak for where you live but for my area its about 400$ for 3 dyno runs and 2 tunes. (initial pull, tune 1 and final tune) The money spent on your tuners could be spent on... "oops" repairs from the mistakes made self-tuning lol.

Just saying, thats what I would do.

[Kids Heart]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Don't need traction control. Traction control makes you slower.

Tell that to Nissan

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

uhhh, sure.

I dunno about you, but if I had the time you did to make all these posts on all these forums, I'd put 900$ down on the software for the particular EMS you purchased for your car and learned to tune it myself.

"oh but it's so easy to fuck up and hard to test for gains"
Sure but consider this ;; Do you think your "local tuners" didn't blow some shit up learning wtf they were doing? Most tuning software comes with "HOLYSHIT" sensors when you change something significantly. I've seen the software for a Civic Si and its pretty idiot proof.

And how much do you pay one of your tuner buddies to change a few things here and there? I can't speak for where you live but for my area its about 400$ for 3 dyno runs and 2 tunes. (initial pull, tune 1 and final tune) The money spent on your tuners could be spent on... "oops" repairs from the mistakes made self-tuning lol.

Just saying, thats what I would do.

You think you can just learn to tune a standalone "just like that"....I think not. Tuning is not a "oh I'll just turn this knob here, and I'll flip this switch there" and Bam, you have a track worthy feat of terror.

Sorry dude, it's not that easy. They don't have tuning classes for no reason.

A mistake made from self-tuning is a blown motor. You make it sound like getting professionally tuned is a waste of time. Sorry, there is no rational behind such. I've self tuned my car before (street tune). But there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking it to someone I trust.

That someone that I trust to tune my tC is PTuning. The two time Modified FWD Time Attack champs with their 550whp+ Scion tC.

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

Tell that to Nissan

I just hope they don't litter the FT-86 with all the electronic "nannies". That will turn me off somewhat, but there are bound to be disable switches somewhere.

[Dimman]

Maybe I'm spoiled locally when it comes to tuners. We've got some good ones. Plus I never considered the emissions thing as my car is old enough to only need a sniffer test. (There must be some kind of ODB2 'all is ok' cheat box out there for tuned cars...)

As far as I know the tuners we have here all started off 'self-taught'. It's more getting to know the interface, and what system they like (speed-density or alpha-n for example). The basics don't really change once you have it down. That being said some have taken some of the courses out there after they started off too.

If I were to start learning myself I would probably get an older Honda/Acura with a Hondata system, wideband, and a book. If you cook it it's no big deal.

But as Dragonitti basically said, a good tuner that knows your system is worth his weight in gold, and can do some amazing stuff while keeping your car safe.

[NESW20]

for what it's worth, i took my MR2 to a nationally known (in the MR2 community) shop to have them install and tune an AEM EMS on my car. i'm a high compression stroker, so it is difficult to tune, but i figured they would do a good job because they specialize in that car and engine.

they didn't do a good job. my engine still runs, but there has been internal damage done. i have replaced all the crank bearings (dropped the pan and rolled them in). i have since retuned it myself on a local dyno and on the street, and it runs WAY better than it did when it left their shop. it will need a full rebuild later, but for now it runs well enough.

that being said, there are still certain people/shops that i would feel comfortable letting them tune my car. i would just be a lot more attentive and not hesitate AT ALL to make them stop if i didn't like something they were doing.

[djohnson]

I believe there are a few standalone units out there that plug into the factory harness. When inspection time comes around, swap in the factory ECU and swap the standalone back in after you get the sticker.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by djohnson

I believe there are a few standalone units out there that plug into the factory harness. When inspection time comes around, swap in the factory ECU and swap the standalone back in after you get the sticker.

Standalones take over the entire system and the factory ECU is not in control of that. Thus the Factory ECU thinks something is wrong with the car. Piggy backs keep the factory ECU in line so it can successfully alter signals and not screw with the factory ECU = pass emissions.

Also, swapping to go to the emission station does not work. Two problems. 1) when you plug the factory ECU back up, it has to run diagnostics and gather info from the car. The Emissions station can't read the ECU while it's in diag mode and they will tell you to go drive around your car until it's finished. There in lies the second problem. 2) When you drive around your car on the factory ECU (granted it's modded enough for you to warrant needing a standalone), it won't know how to act with injectors that are 3 times the size of factory, or if you running a Blow-thru setup now, it's going to look at the MAF like it's malfunctioning. Thus creating a CEL.

Only way to beat the emissions station is to A) Use a Piggyback, B) Pay someone to let you pass C) Have a standalone and a piggyback and when you want to go to Emissions swap in the Piggyback that can still successfully control those injectors and your setup.

When I upgrade to a standalone, I'll keep my E-Ultimate for Emissions day.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

If you don't think it can be learned then its not for you I guess. If you have the software and the time, nothing is impossible.

Also, if you think you can't pick up "something" and learn it just like that, its obviously not your learning style. Guess what -- its mine

a little fiddling around and I've got the basics down. Give me a week with it and I'll make the pro's wonder where I went to school to learn all this -- give me a month and I could work in a pro shop. It's how my mind learns, I don't know exactly but I like it. A month is a little exaggerated, the software is pretty complex for some of the tuning bits but I don't think 3 or so months would be unreasonable for me.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

If you don't think it can be learned then its not for you I guess. If you have the software and the time, nothing is impossible.

Also, if you think you can't pick up "something" and learn it just like that, its obviously not your learning style. Guess what -- its mine

a little fiddling around and I've got the basics down. Give me a week with it and I'll make the pro's wonder where I went to school to learn all this -- give me a month and I could work in a pro shop. It's how my mind learns, I don't know exactly but I like it. A month is a little exaggerated, the software is pretty complex for some of the tuning bits but I don't think 3 or so months would be unreasonable for me.

I was going to leave a lengthy reply, instead I deleted all I was going to say and just give you the "Cool story bro.." reply.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

If you don't think it can be learned then its not for you I guess. If you have the software and the time, nothing is impossible.

Also, if you think you can't pick up "something" and learn it just like that, its obviously not your learning style. Guess what -- its mine

a little fiddling around and I've got the basics down. Give me a week with it and I'll make the pro's wonder where I went to school to learn all this -- give me a month and I could work in a pro shop. It's how my mind learns, I don't know exactly but I like it. A month is a little exaggerated, the software is pretty complex for some of the tuning bits but I don't think 3 or so months would be unreasonable for me.

If you want to learn, you've got a Civic, so start with something like this:
http://www.hondata.com/s300.html

And a fast Wideband O2 sensor.

The Hondata is basically a programmable hack for the stock ECU with a lot more features. Get a book or two ('Performance Fuel Injection Systems' by Matt Cramer and Jerry Hoffmann published by HPBooks and 'How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems' by Jeff Hartman published by Motorbooks Workshop are good starts), get on some forums and start with fuel/ignition tables.

The problem you'll have is testing. How will you know if you make more power without a dyno? The 'How to Tune and Modify EMS' has sample project car that uses a Hondata and the 'Performance Fuel Injection Systems' has a how-to on road-tuning, but it's not really recommended. It can get you familiar with it as long as you don't try anything too extreme.

If you're not afraid of cooking the Civic, it's probably the only way to learn for you, especially up there.

And if you ever decide you need a serious install/tuner I know a really good guy down here.

[danban]

Anything that pulls more hp than the N/A 2.0l would draw my attention; either 2.0 turbo or 2.5l N/A.