In for the long haul Ultimate NA build thread.

[Dr Speed]

Originally Posted by sato

Old post: NA 2.5 RS breaking 300hp back in 2005...

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f5/t36040...300-na-hp.html

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Fail. 300hp is a crank horsepower estimate, actual dyno in link is for 235whp and appears to be STD numbers not SAE numbers. No smoothing factor listed... Undoubtedly the car made 215-220ish rwhp SAE

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by MattHoffman

i broke that with 3500$.. just saying. but then again my car is just like 1000 other brzs this will be one of a kind for sure

Oh a I agree this is has very low hp/$ ratio. I would not do it myself. A simple super charger kit as you mentioned is more cost effective.

[celek]

Originally Posted by stevo585

Oh a I agree this is has very low hp/$ ratio. I would not do it myself. A simple super charger kit as you mentioned is more cost effective.

This is not the point to the build. Anyone can put FI on this car in fact thousands have already, or swapped in an engine. If you have never driven a built all motor car it is exhilarating. Additionally ask the FI guys how many transmissions they have gone through. The build is following the original grassroots AE86 origin.

[Mr.Impreza]

Mr. Tsuchiya-san..NA build

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by celek

This is not the point to the build. Anyone can put FI on this car in fact thousands have already, or swapped in an engine. If you have never driven a built all motor car it is exhilarating. Additionally ask the FI guys how many transmissions they have gone through. The build is following the original grassroots AE86 origin.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by celek

This is not the point to the build. Anyone can put FI on this car in fact thousands have already, or swapped in an engine. If you have never driven a built all motor car it is exhilarating. Additionally ask the FI guys how many transmissions they have gone through. The build is following the original grassroots AE86 origin.

I know the point of your build is to be different and travel the path not taken. My point is still valid though but its your car and the results will be interesting.

FI guys do go through trannys but not until your over 400+ whp or so. A lot of guys local to me have not broke trannys with power in the 500+ range, thus some of it is driving habits.

I think we can all agree a mild FI build in the 250-325 whp range is going to pretty reliable.

[aaguirre123]

if the average 210 whp that you quoted is accurate then Celek's build is promising because the increased displacement to 2.3 fa20 motor will have a higher whp due to fr-s/brz are rear wheel drive cars. I am assuming of course that the N/A engines that you mentioned are installed in an AWD cars.


my predicted assumption of higher HP result was based on youtube video, by /DRIVE, of Crawford stating that for the same turbo the EJ made 360hp vs. FA20 made 430hp. that's a 19.44% difference. if we apply the 19.44% on 210whp, that's 251whp.


am I correct on my assumption? I sure hope Crawford is not blowing smoke.

Originally Posted by Dr Speed

I was going to reference some of the EJ25 builds that average about 210rwhp on full N/A builds, bored, oversized pistons, cams, ported heads, headers etc.


Engine/Power Modifications:
EJ251 bored over 100mm
Wiseco 12:1 pistons/rings
EJ257 crank/rods/oil pump
ACL RACE series bearings, std clearances.
EJ251 SOHC heads, ported by owner, stock valve sizes
Delta 3000 grind cams
EJ253 (AVLS) valve springs
06 2.5i intake manifold (big plenum/big runner)
70mm Ford throttlebody
440cc injectors
LinkPlus G1 standalone engine management
TWE prototype longtube header
2.5" aluminum non catted exhaust
2.5" DNA spiralflow muffler

^^^ All this got the owner 204 rwhp on a built 2.5L

[swarb]

Originally Posted by aaguirre123

am I correct on my assumption? I sure hope Crawford is not blowing smoke.

Nope. FI and NA are two different ball games. EJ vs FA20 is very much like FA20 vs F20C(s2000 engine), guess who wins by almost the exact same margin?

[aaguirre123]

Originally Posted by swarb

Nope. FI and NA are two different ball games. EJ vs FA20is very much like FA20 vs F20C(s2000 engine), guess who wins by almost the exact same margin?

comparing performance difference between an I4 to H4 2 liter engines? that's how you want to show that you are correct? that's how you want to argue your point of view? what a ninny.

[Dr Speed]

Originally Posted by aaguirre123

if the average 210 whp that you quoted is accurate then Celek's build is promising because the increased displacement to 2.3 fa20 motor will have a higher whp due to fr-s/brz are rear wheel drive cars. I am assuming of course that the N/A engines that you mentioned are installed in an AWD cars.


my predicted assumption of higher HP result was based on youtube video, by /DRIVE, of Crawford stating that for the same turbo the EJ made 360hp vs. FA20 made 430hp. that's a 19.44% difference. if we apply the 19.44% on 210whp, that's 251whp.


am I correct on my assumption? I sure hope Crawford is not blowing smoke.

no that was rwhp in my build. You are bench racing. Math and reality are not necessarily the same thing, and a manufactuer is more likely to inflate numbers for marketing, advertising and sales. Also Turbo potential hp figures vs N/A number potential is not equal. I'd divide your 19.44% by 2 or more realistically.

[aaguirre123]

Originally Posted by Dr Speed

no that was rwhp in my build. You are bench racing. Math and reality are not necessarily the same thing, and a manufactuer is more likely to inflate numbers for marketing, advertising and sales. Also Turbo potential hp figures vs N/A number potential is not equal.

I am just quoting what Crawford was stating that the FA20 yields more HP than an EJ on the same turbo. Because of this I am concluding that a NA FA20 will yield more HP than an NA EJ. Granted percentage increase in HP will be different but FA20 will yield more HP nonetheless. Also I would like to add that Subaru used the FA20 engine because a NA EJ20 or EJ25 can not reach the desired goal of 200 crank hp on pump. May be if you modify the design of the EJ20/25; Longer stroke, higher compression piston, DI/PI fuel deliver and redesign the rods to achieve a higher reving motor.


But wait, Subaru did modify the EJ20/25 motor. It's called the normally aspirated high reving FA20 motor.

[Hawk77FT]

How 'bout we wait and see, hey? that'd be great!

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

How 'bout we wait and see, hey? that'd be great!

No! I'd rather bench race other motors and prove to the world that crawford(my favorite) says the fa20 makes more power than a ej20 on boost which means nothing on this thread. I just wanted to make a point that it does, and it means nothing.

[chaoskaze]

Lol stop


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