Data Logs! Post them here.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

@SoldONE is it an OFT A01C? I'll dig out the table address for you to try If you want.

Other things to note, overlap will cause changes in AFR however it is unlikely that the cylinder AFR will be that different. By that I mean cylinder AFR of <13 and O2 AFR of 15. I know what you're trying to do, but if you're going to play with the AVCS then I'd do that 1st before fueling otherwise you'll just have to do it all again.

I have something in the pipeline with regards to road tuning AVCS....
@thambu19 most tunes only change the cam timings under WOT. Why don't you start liking at the tunes

Sure, but I don't think I'd know how to find it to adjust it. I've been using the defs being supplied to access and make adjustments to the tables that have already been defined. Compared to y'all, I'm pretty much computer illiterate, to be honest. I wouldn't mind learning how, though.

[thambu19]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Retarding the base timing was done to address the medium load/low rpm knock. For tip in I have increased the amount of transient enrichment and transient ignition retard on each corresponding table that have been defined thanks to our resident programmers hacking the factory ecu.

Edit: in the other thread about knock, you stated to leave certain cal tables alone. If you currently own this car, I invite you to log the stock calibration using 91 octane or even 93 octane, if that's what you have available in your state, for knock. Then reflash with a OTS tune from Vishnu or I can send you one of my cals I tuned for 91 octane and I believe you will see why we've been making modifications to the stock tables for better knock resistance, power, and economy. Since most of us have no means to measure emissions, I cannot say whether its worsened or improve with the modifications.



The cam table I've loaded were supposedly dialed by other members on this forum to work with the long tube headers I've installed. Now, I'm assuming that since the length of the runners are much longer also the lack of a catalytic converter on the header I'm currently running compared to the stock header it will require much different cam phasing to extract the maximum amount of power while WOT. The amount of power I've gotten while using these cam tables and this long tube header over a short tube, cat-less equal length header I was running previously was very satisfactory, to say the least. I'm sure even more power can be extracted with some tuning, but I'm happy using it as baseline.


Blue, long tube EL header (current)
Red, short tube El header
baseline stock header with tune was about 168whp and 135tq
This is on 91 octane petrol:


Using the logs I can replicate closely what it will read on a dyno using a freeware called virtual dyno, so measuring power output after changes is not a problem. I've used this software extensively and have found that it can produce very repeatable and consistent dynographs as long as the road is perfectly flat and there is no wheel slip in the log along with accurate input of vehicle weight, wheel diameters, temp and barometric pressure. Check it out if you haven't seen it before. http://www.virtualdyno.net/

That is pretty awesome. Never heard of that software. That is pretty slick

I did not know you were running CATless and headers in your car. The OEMs cams will no longer be valid then.

Reg tip in knock: I have worked to some extent on it (not on FA20) and have found that some level of transient knock does not harm the engine nor does it learn itself into the long term knock retard since in normal circumstances the knock should be consistent and engine should be in pseudo steady state for the ECU to update a cell for knock activity to pull out spark in LT.

When engineers try to completely eliminate tip in knock they end up causing slight hesitation and lack of torque response to pedal input. Ultimately when I calibrate an engine if SS knock is non existent and knock only shows up at transients we don't worry about it so much and just the knock sensor take care of it. This is for overall drivability and FE.

Cant really comment on the OTS cal because multiple parameters have been changed (cams, spark, fueling, transient fueling etc) If their cal takes away all sorts of knock, improves power, improves drive feel and at the same time FE then kudos to them because they know something that Toyota and Subaru doesnt

I am closely following all the threads and enjoying the enthusiasm of the community. I am trying to contribute to the best of my abilities since I have performed calibration for a few years. Some of my methods can be different because I worked for an OEM and I think like an OEM. Which means I also know where OEMs will not cut corners to get more power due to emissions and durability restrictions.

[thambu19]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

@SoldONE is it an OFT A01C? I'll dig out the table address for you to try If you want.

Other things to note, overlap will cause changes in AFR however it is unlikely that the cylinder AFR will be that different. By that I mean cylinder AFR of <13 and O2 AFR of 15. I know what you're trying to do, but if you're going to play with the AVCS then I'd do that 1st before fueling otherwise you'll just have to do it all again.

I have something in the pipeline with regards to road tuning AVCS....
@thambu19 most tunes only change the cam timings under WOT. Why don't you start liking at the tunes

Not sure if that is true. From experience and from papers I have read this is possible but depends on how heavily one is trying to scavenge. Typically OEMs are restricted to 1% O2 in their exhaust to protect the CAT and also by regulations but if you scavenge heavily and see 3-4% O2 in exhaust then an incylinder 12.5AFR will show up 1.25 times higher = 15.5 AFR at the O2 sensor/exhaust. For those running CATless and headers made of better material to withstand the heat this might be less of a problem.

http://www.cambustion.com/sites/defa...%20through.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...t_the_Test_Bed

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by thambu19

That is pretty awesome. Never heard of that software. That is pretty slick

I did not know you were running CATless and headers in your car. The OEMs cams will no longer be valid then.

Reg tip in knock: I have worked to some extent on it (not on FA20) and have found that some level of transient knock does not harm the engine nor does it learn itself into the long term knock retard since in normal circumstances the knock should be consistent and engine should be in pseudo steady state for the ECU to update a cell for knock activity to pull out spark in LT.

When engineers try to completely eliminate tip in knock they end up causing slight hesitation and lack of torque response to pedal input. Ultimately when I calibrate an engine if SS knock is non existent and knock only shows up at transients we don't worry about it so much and just the knock sensor take care of it. This is for overall drivability and FE.

Cant really comment on the OTS cal because multiple parameters have been changed (cams, spark, fueling, transient fueling etc) If their cal takes away all sorts of knock, improves power, improves drive feel and at the same time FE then kudos to them because they know something that Toyota and Subaru doesnt

I am closely following all the threads and enjoying the enthusiasm of the community. I am trying to contribute to the best of my abilities since I have performed calibration for a few years. Some of my methods can be different because I worked for an OEM and I think like an OEM. Which means I also know where OEMs will not cut corners to get more power due to emissions and durability restrictions.

If you knew the history of the different cals for this engine you would not be so confident about their OE calibrations. On the earlier cals in the 1st year model, there were drive-ability issues related to low idle rpms. Not sure about the newer cal updates but it idled at 650rpm and would often stumble. Along with that there were issues with transient knock that, i believe, led to or contributed to many engine failures particularly in the MY2013's. I believe they have done several TSB's to try to address those issues.

Another thing is that the OE cals were dialed for high quality premium fuel, it seems. So, if you run fuel that is not up to par (91 octane instead of 93), a lot of knock will show up. I've heard that this is a common problem with cars made by Subaru, as this problem is not only present in the FA20 in this car, but also in imprezas, WRXs, forresters, etc. This is where the adjustment I've made come into play. Let me see if I can find an old log using the unmodified stock cal to show you want I'm talking about.

Anyhow, we're glad to have you on board contributing your insights and perspectives on this forum.

Edit: @thambu19

Here's a log of the stock A01C rom in 69*f ambient temps:
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stock-a...0&data=1-10-14
While there is no knock going wide open because of the more conservative ignition timing at the upper load ranges, there is a bit of knock in medium load and maybe some tip in knock even in such cool temperatures. The IAM start to drop back a little toward the end of the log.

Here's a log in similar 67*f ambient temps using a OTS Stg 1 rom modified for better knock resistance in part throttle and tip in (not sure what all the modifications I did were exactly on this one):
http://datazap.me/u/solidone/stg1-20...=0&data=1-9-12
You will notice that the IAM stays solid at 1 all the way through, only seeing some knock while going wide open due to the more aggressive ignition timing for max power with the factory exhaust system. In part throttle and tip in there is little to no knock correction.

[thambu19]

@solidONE
Have you had a chance to compare the MY12 cals vs MY14 cals to see what changed between those that eliminated the issues that were initially observed? Mine is MY13 and my idle quality is piss poor.
There have been numerous instances at work where I tried restarting a the car that was already sweetly humming at idle thinking it was off. That is the level of perfection we try to get. Granted it has more cylinders. The idle in the FRS is appalling. Not sure if it is to do with the 100% DI operation combined with quest for fuel economy at all cost or because the engine is kept at severe torque reserve since it is a measly unit. OEMs generally pull out a ton of spark to keep enough reserve. For the manual it makes things worse because the transmission load is non existent (unlike the ATs) and so the airflow is lower at idle for MX vs AT. Lower airflow at same engine idle speed means bad combustion stability

[DocWalt]

I have better idle quality on my HUGE cammed GTI with Megasquirt tuned by myself having no prior knowledge of tuning... Which says a lot about Subaru's idle control. or my patience... I'm not sure which

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by thambu19

@solidONE
Have you had a chance to compare the MY12 cals vs MY14 cals to see what changed between those that eliminated the issues that were initially observed? Mine is MY13 and my idle quality is piss poor.
There have been numerous instances at work where I tried restarting a the car that was already sweetly humming at idle thinking it was off. That is the level of perfection we try to get. Granted it has more cylinders. The idle in the FRS is appalling. Not sure if it is to do with the 100% DI operation combined with quest for fuel economy at all cost or because the engine is kept at severe torque reserve since it is a measly unit. OEMs generally pull out a ton of spark to keep enough reserve. For the manual it makes things worse because the transmission load is non existent (unlike the ATs) and so the airflow is lower at idle for MX vs AT. Lower airflow at same engine idle speed means bad combustion stability

from what I remember they added some transient retard to the newer cals, I'm sure there are others. I simply worked off of the OTS roms offered by Vishnu and Shiv and took it a bit further by adding more transient enrichment and retard, retarding the timing in the areas prone to knocking and increase the DI for a bit more knock risistance. I think I have the stock cals saved in my older laptop, but I'll have to find it. Maybe @Kodename47 @steve99 or someone else that keeps better records can chime in.

[DocWalt]

I can confirm that they added transient retardation at higher RPMs (I forget where it started) vs the early cars that had only transient retardation at low RPMs. Track use would eventually blow out the DI seals due to knocking... There were some idle changes IIRC, but I don't remember what exactly.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

from what I remember they added some transient retard to the newer cals, I'm sure there are others. I simply worked off of the OTS roms offered by Vishnu and Shiv and took it a bit further by adding more transient enrichment and retard, retarding the timing in the areas prone to knocking and increase the DI for a bit more knock risistance. I think I have the stock cals saved in my older laptop, but I'll have to find it. Maybe @Kodename47 @steve99 or someone else that keeps better records can chime in.

Originally Posted by DocWalt

I can confirm that they added transient retardation at higher RPMs (I forget where it started) vs the early cars that had only transient retardation at low RPMs. Track use would eventually blow out the DI seals due to knocking... There were some idle changes IIRC, but I don't remember what exactly.

700x,900x A00x roms were carrections for rough idle and cam compensation issues A01x was transient ignition retard (di seal fix). in usa they had another go at idle fixs in B00x and B01x and some cars still idle badly especially on 91 fuel.

if your running oft roms your earlier rom calid is automaticly updated to latest compatable ie anyone on below B01x is updated to B01x, even though the rom name may be 700x or the others.

change the di\pi tables to run full di at idle ie loads 0.2 and 0.3 and bump you idle to 700 or 750, oft roms bump idle to 750 but dont do the full di. At idle running both injection systems means its injecting very small amounts of fuel via both, also as the di is straight into cylinder it can react faster to air con load changes ect seems to work well on my car anyway

[Lord09]

I'm using the Stage 2 E85 UEL tune with Wayno's maps copied over.

I'm seeing a bit of FKLC:

http://datazap.me/u/lord09/log-1447436457?log=0&data=2

Anyone mind chiming in and providing their thoughts, anything I should be concerned with?

Even though it's not in the this log, I have seen the IAM drop to ~.9 on occasion, but quickly climb back to 1.0

Only mods are OFT/OFH + a TRD drop in filter. E85 is 85-90%.

[JB86'd]

@Lord09 I wouldn't be too concerned with that knock, that's a very knock prone rpm/load range. (I'm on 91 but I had consistent knock around that same exact area that was a bit worse even after pulling some timing.) If IAM is pretty much always at 1, I'd just let the ECU do its thing.

[DocWalt]

It's slightly odd that it's knocking that often, but it's not dropping the IAM so it's probably not a big concern unless you're tracking the car a lot.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by username404

Today I drove the car over 100 miles and logged new files.

http://datazap.me/u/username404/nov-02-drive-0102

Just a heads up for you. I reinstalled my oil catch can and discovered that at the dipstick there was a pinhole type leak. Drive-ability and ide quality was not effected, but LT fuel trims went up 4~6% at the lower MAF ranges. So do check for intake vacuum leak using the carb/brake cleaner method I suggested.

[BigBone3]

Heres my OFT Stage 2 UEL log

http://www.datazap.me/u/bigbone3/log...1?log=0&data=1