Shopping cars today, test drove an fr-s..my thoughts and I'd like more opinions plz.

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by VTEC

^ This. In order to enjoy the twins you need to be hitting 7400 rpm.

Also, I'd encourage you to get the manual even if it is your only car. An experienced manual driver can do 0-60 in 6.2 seconds which is on par with other sports cars in its price range like the Fiesta ST and Civic SI. An automatic does 7.7 seconds which is on par with a 4 cylinder Camry. Maybe that is ok with you since you are also considering a Camry and the FR-S is no drag racer manual or not. But it is damn fun to chirp tires in 2nd gear with a manual lol

Finally, you're in California so you are probably limited to 91 octane fuel which means the car is running on reduced power. Some people put in octane booster to get the fuel up to the recommended 93 octane but I doubt the dealership did that for the car you test drove.

If you thought the Camaro felt like a boat, I don't think you'll like the Camry much better in that sense. A manual TC is not a bad ride. Roomy interior and panoramic sunfoof. Plus it's a bit faster and much better handling than a Camry but it's obviously no FR-S. Civic SI is also a decent ride. Faster than TC and on par with the FR-S. Handling is also better than TC but worse than FR-S

In terms of most practical to most sporty it would be TC, SI, FR-S. If you really want to learn to drive and enjoy driving I would pick one of these 3 cars in a manual. The new Camry's look nice but I don't think they will do anything to encourage your passion for driving.

Here is the main issue I see with most suggestions like you did (not saying anything is wrong with what you and others suggest but) I bought the BRZ because I wanted a fun car (criteria #2) and wanted it to be RWD(criteria numero uno) So although I understand why you guys propose the Op to try other cars but you guys almost always forget that someone buying or considering a Twin might be doing so because they want a RWD car so the regular suggestions are useless if that is the case as they are all awd or fwd. Just my two cents for people maybe throw one or two rwd cars when suggesting alternatives

[Tcoat]

I am going to present a non argumentative counter point to some of these comments.
There is no need to be constantly downshifting, bouncing off the rev limiter, driving a MT, or any of the "'cuz sports car" actions to enjoy driving these cars. They function perfectly fine as a reasonably priced 2 door 2+2 coupe without having to hammer the crap out of them (although they can serve that function nicely as well). As a DD you will rarely get to go zipping around at 7400 rpms and unless your laws permit drifting around corners you will probably use the car at 60% of it's potential 80% of the time. The stock power and AT are perfectly fine for use as a regular car and unless you plan on racing of some kind will serve you well.That 20% when you can play makes it all worthwhile though.


Now... these cars are spartan to say the least and are certainly intended for people that love the act of driving so if you are looking for a comfy cruiser there may be better choices out there. I am actually surprised that the Genesis coupe has not been brought up yet as it gives you a much more luxurious interior and (blasphemy alert) just about as good a driving experience as the 86.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by VTEC

The new Camry's look nice but I don't think they will do anything to encourage your passion for driving.

When I drove 5 hours to the Toyota dealership to pick up my new-to-me 2013 FR-S last weekend, I spent an hour or so wandering around the show room. I could barely stay awake; the CiviCamPri cars all pretty much look alike and there wasn't a single car on the floor other than one new FR-S that had any curb appeal at all... none. I even fall asleep during Toyota commercials. I've gotta commend them on the FR-S/BRZ venture... it's a GREAT sign. I sure hope they do well with it and get back to designing CARS instead of transportation.

Don't get me wrong... Toyota makes great, reliable, economical-to-own cars. There's a BIG period at the end of that sentence for me. That, and, over $24,000 for a COROLLA?!?!? REALLY??!?!!?

<rant over>

Barry

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

...

Now... these cars are spartan to say the least and are certainly intended for people that love the act of driving ...

EXACTLY why I bought this car. I don't WANT garage door openers, bells, whistles, electric nose wipers, heated steering wheels, headlights that move, self-parking, or any of the other stuff that adds to the expense of making and maintaining a car. I want an engine, a transmission, brakes, steering linkage, and something that holds me in place while I put those systems through their paces. Keeping me and my family safe is a big plus, too. I'd prefer it if the windows and locks weren't electric too, but all in all I'm very pleasantly surprised with how little this car offers, if you get my drift, and with how MUCH it offers in performance, handling, and fun. Who would have figured I'd have to pay a bit more than ever to get a car that's LESS "equipped" than most standard cars these days.

Up until now, I've never paid more than $15,000 for a car, and I've owned two Mercedes, a BMW, a Range Rover, an Audi, a few Fords, a Celica, two Mitsubishis, two Fiat Spiders, an '82 VW Rabbit convertible, and probably a few others I've forgotten about. All were in excellent shape when I bought them. Corrections.. the VW was a pile and I paid $300, and the Audi 80 was OK, but I paid $1500. The BMW and Celica are tired for best bang for the buck; both were indestructible and reliable. The Range Rover was my favorite of all time ('93 LWB), and an absolute NIGHTMARE to own. Nothing practical about ownership; it needed constant repair and maintenance, and yet there's NOTHING like driving through even the worst of weather or terrain in total comfort w/ great visibility.

With the FR-S, I'm looking forward to driving something daily that I can really have some FUN with, and NOT need to fix it every week because some stupid electrical gremlin rears it's ugly head, some seal poops the bed, or it's time for the weekly hub flush. Engine, tranny, suspension, brakes, steering baby. Leave the bling and heated mirror washers for the tech-enslaved world, please.


<rant off> Hmm... that's two rants today. Maybe I need more prunes.

Best to all!

Barry

[VTEC]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

Here is the main issue I see with most suggestions like you did (not saying anything is wrong with what you and others suggest but) I bought the BRZ because I wanted a fun car (criteria #2) and wanted it to be RWD(criteria numero uno) So although I understand why you guys propose the Op to try other cars but you guys almost always forget that someone buying or considering a Twin might be doing so because they want a RWD car so the regular suggestions are useless if that is the case as they are all awd or fwd. Just my two cents for people maybe throw one or two rwd cars when suggesting alternatives

I wasn't actually suggesting the TC or SI myself. The OP himself says he's considering a TC and Civic so I don't think RWD is part of his requirements. That said, you have a point. So I`ll just throw out the 370z and genesis coupe R spec as considerations too.

But at the end of the day and of course I am biased, I still think the FR-S or BRZ in manual is the best choice and here`s why.

Most people buy autos cuz a) your commute is shit b) wife will kill you if you buy manual. Since OP is single it`s probably something to do with a)

The clutch in this car is very light. Much lighter than a 370z. It`s been a while since I drove a gen coupe but I`m pretty sure it`s lighter than that too. This means it won`t be as annoying in rush hour traffic jams. I mean it won`t be great, but as far as manuals go, this is one of the best clutches for traffic jams.

Second, this car`s performance with a manual really depends on your skill as a driver. Like I said, a good driver can get 0-60 in 6.2 seconds, but an inexperienced driver using the minimum 91 fuel will probably get smoked by an automatic fr-s. You see people posting youtube runs with the traction control still on or the air con still running or they are shifting before the redline. But this doesn`t mean inexperienced drivers should buy automatics. In fact, it`s the opposite. Inexperienced drivers should buy this car in manual because it rewards you as you develop your skills more so than other cars. A manual genesis coupe V6 has so much power that even if you suck at driving stick, it will go fast. It won`t encourage you to rev out the car to get its maximum potential. And as an inexperienced driver you might be scared to rev out a 350 hp engine. But our car is fast enough to have fun but still slow enough to run to the redline without getting into too much trouble.

Now if OP already can drive a manual like Randy Probst and he wants an automatic for daily commute, go for it. An auto FR-S can still be a lot of fun in the corners. But if you`ve never had a manual before I strongly encourage you to get it for this car. There`s nothing like popping the clutch out during a turn to put it into a small drift. Or nailing that perfect shift at 7400 rpm and chirping the tires into the next gear (ok fine it`s usually just 2nd gear but you get the point). I always encourage people to buy a manual car at least once in their lives. Even if it`s just an accord sedan or honda fit. Doesn`t have to be a sports car. Try it once, if you really can`t stand the commute then get an auto later. But at least you tried it.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Shedd22

Ive taken 8 hour trips in the BRZ and haven't had any issues with the seats. I actually think they're some of the most comfortable seats I've sat in. Granted I'm only 24 years old so when my back starts to get bad I'm sure I'll change my mind.

Yea, I don't get that, there are people on the forum that complain about the seats on long road trips, but I've done several 4 hour stints for 100+ miles over and over again and they are super comfortable

[Agent 86]

It sounds to me like you're looking for a nice car. A little sporty with amenities, comfort, and decent performance. It doesn't sound like it needs to be rear wheel drive, or even 2 doors.

I think you should take a look at the 2016 Mazda 3 (hatch or sedan, your choice). My son just graduated, got a great job and bought a Touring R version.

It drives very well for a front wheel driver. The interior is almost luxury like with nice materials, gadgets and a fairly quiet ride.

My son bought the hatch with 18" wheels, Nav, sunroof, heads up display etc. for a bit over $22k before tags, tax and title.

Check it out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

EXACTLY what I bought this car. I don't WANT garage door openers, bells, whistles, electric nose wipers, heated steering wheels, headlights that move, self-parking, or any of the other stuff that adds to the expense of making and maintaining a car. I want an engine, a transmission, brakes, steering linkage, transmission, and something that holds me in place while I put those systems through their paces. Keeping me and my family safe is a big plus, too. I'd prefer it if the windows and locks weren't electric too, but all in all I'm very pleasantly surprised with how little this car offers, if you get my drift, and with how MUCH it offers in performance, handling, and fun. Who would have figured I'd have to pay a bit more than ever to get a car that's LESS "equipped" than most standard cars these days.

Up until now, I've never paid more than $15,000 for a car, and I've owned two Mercedes, a BMW, a Range Rover, an Audi, a few Fords, a Celica, two Mitsubishis, two Fiat Spiders, an '82 VW Rabbit convertible, and probably a few others I've forgotten about. All were in excellent shape when I bought them. Corrections.. the VW was a pile and I paid $300, and the Audi 80 was OK, but I paid $1500. The BMW and Celica are tired for best bang for the buck; both were indestructible and reliable. The Range Rover was my favorite of all time ('93 LWB), and an absolute NIGHTMARE to own. Nothing practical about ownership; it needed constant repair and maintenance, and yet there's NOTHING like driving through even the worst of weather or terrain in total comfort w/ great visibility.

With the FR-S, I'm looking forward to driving something daily that I can really have some FUN with, and NOT need to fix it every week because some stupid electrical gremlin rears it's ugly head, some seal poops the bed, or it's time for the weekly hub flush. Engine, tranny, suspension, brakes, steering baby. Leave the bling and heated mirror washers for the tech-enslaved world, please.


<rant off> Hmm... that's two rants today. Maybe I need more prunes.

Best to all!

Barry

This were exactly what drew me to it as well. I am old and like fewer gadgets. I drove a fully loaded Focus rental and it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to turn the radio on but the drive itself just plain bored me.
But... many do like all that bling and tech stuff so they need to know upfront when shopping for these cars that they are not going to get it. What many call a "cheap looking" interior I call looks just right on a bare bones drivers car.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This were exactly what drew me to it as well. I am old and like fewer gadgets. I drove a fully loaded Focus rental and it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to turn the radio on but the drive itself just plain bored me.
But... many do like all that bling and tech stuff so they need to know upfront when shopping for these cars that they are not going to get it. What many call a "cheap looking" interior I call looks just right on a bare bones drivers car.

I think I may have had the same model as a rental. It is the only car I couldn't figure out how to set a preset on the stereo. I think mine had 2 d-pads on the steering wheel and a dozen or so buttons.

-Justin

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

I think I may have had the same model as a rental. It is the only car I couldn't figure out how to set a preset on the stereo. I think mine had 2 d-pads on the steering wheel and a dozen or so buttons.

-Justin

That is probably it. Had to drive around with a wonky seat position until I could park to locate and work the 186 buttons, levers, switch's and voodoo spells required to adjust it.
I knew tire pressure, inside temperature, outside temperature, relative humidity, oil pressure, coolant level, windshield washer level, the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow (both European and African) but couldn't find the freakn' clock.

[fumanchu1]

@VTEC was just stating this in a general sense not necessarily aimed at you just felt like if I should address someone on that topic might as well be someone who was talkin about said subject. And yes you are right the stock clutch is so light its basically butter, I do not have a stock clutch, clutch is actually heavier than in my is300 and my buddy's talon I also agree that manual is very rewarding. About the chirp in second I wouldn't know (look under my name, under drives I can actually full on spin tires shifting from 3rd into 4th (stopped trying after because I mean why would I even want to still be spinning on the 5th or 6th gear)

[Toyarzee]

Keep the taco and boost it!

[JEDI]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

You've got good taste even if you're not a car person like everyone here on the forum, if I might recommend as others said in the price range:
Subaru WRX
VW GTI
Fiesta ST
Mustang Ecoboost
FR-S
Miata (stretching it here not as practical as the others)

Also I had a similar experience with a dealership here in PA Subaru VS Scion, Subaru dealership brushed me off immediately and he just didn't come back with keys for a test drive, extremely off putting also I heard bad things about colonial Subaru maybe because they though some dumb 20 something year old couldn't afford anything. Scion dealer, the entire sales team was way less stuck up and immediately assisted me and just through me the keys for a test drive, dropped a down payment and they did the paperwork in less than 2 hours. Also unlike other places they legitimately were interested in the cars

After reading your post I would definitely go test drive a GTi. What was said above is good advice. Sounds like you want luxury, but you don't want to pay an extra premium. I'm unsure if the whole smog crisis VW is going through has an effect on prices, but may give you some more haggling power, they really want your business. Now as far as Scion dealer experience vs. Subaru, I've bought 4 Scions and all were awesome experiences compared to my 5 WRX purchases with the exception of the '15 I paid cash for lol. Once you find a good Subaru dealer you tend to stick with them. If you can wait one more year there's a lot of vehicles coming down the pipes that have performance, practicality and all the new tech out of the box.

[Mim]

I'm certainly not going to argue that learning and driving a manual is not rewarding, but at the same time, I wouldn't sell the A/T short. I've learned how to drive my auto pretty fast over the past year. Just as you would with a manual you learn of what gear is best for the current situation and the RPM you need for best engine response.

The gearing is shorter in the manual, which is the only real reason the manual is faster off the line however, once rolling, the A/T shifts faster so there is less of a difference. You can also completely eliminate that gearing difference (in the A/T) by updating the final drive from the stock 4.10 to something like a 4.556.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27647

Sorry I don't mean to go off topic, but am just saying there is nothing detrimental in choosing either a manual or A/T. Each has it pro's and cons, but performance (in my eyes) is not all that different once you fix the gearing difference.

I've pulled the trigger on a Cusco 4.556 FD gear set and will be getting it installed later in the month. Its my first drive train mod.