i test drove the FRS yesterday! and im a little worried....

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by R36 almost

i drove a manual today. its SLOW. i revved all the way to limiter and did wheel chirps while shifting, but its no SPORTS car. Its "sporty"
Its like plain cake so you can modify it the way you want. Add turbo or so.
Stock, its not worth money

Actually it is pretty darn close to being the definition of a sports car.
It is true it isn't fast though.
At least you know now and can find something more to your liking

[carbonBLUE]

car does at least 132 in auto ( i let off, should have kept going)

auto can drift, chirp tires on the right surfaces, i personally like the auto offroad

impressions on dirt/gravel, damn its fun and there is soooo much mechanical grip i was suprised!

[cassidy0998]

The transmission won't make THAT much of a difference. It doesn't turn it into a completely different car, the auto just has taller gears, but they both have 6 - when you're in the RPMs, you're in the RPMs if you know what I mean....

The FR-S isn't a fast car, it's not meant to be. But we can't really defend it by saying "Oh yeah it's slow because you drove the auto" because that isn't true. This is a sporty car, not a sports car. It runs 15 second 1/4 times, has a below average 0-60 time and will have some "somewhat" decent lap times.

"But this car is for the driver mannnnnnnnnnnn" - Well, okay... but it's still a pretty slow car that's over hyped and over priced.

It's just a car, not a gift from god. - No matter what Toyota and Subaru try to make us believe.

I followed this car for years, but am very disappointed with the final product - Sorry guys

[djjd42]

I'm calling it here and now: This forum's Eternal September has begun. June 1st, I figure.

For the record: I lurked a while before creating an account.

[Moto-P]

Haha, I suppose many of us in the USA are used to cars with engines having large hefty mid-range torque, and far and few of cars that need winding up the engine. This is because of a few factors, but primarily it has always been the lack of regulatory and voluntary effort on the Big 3 US makers, and opposition of restriction of displacement and raising taxes according to large displacement engines. Secondly majority of us have cars as primary tool for getting to places and as such, have opted for automatic transmissions, over manual, which is reserved for most as secondary cars for pleasure.

These two factor alone will cater most of the manufacturers to make larger engines even in smaller cars, like the 2.5L 4 cylinder engines and long stroke v6's that offer a lot of torque at low and min-ranges where automatic transmission can 'feel' punchy.

Traditional sports cars and most compact cars in a global sense, is rather different and usually have high strung smaller engines that sip less fuel in general use, and offer high output only when revved high. If you look at cars like the S2000, it has evolved from a extreme high strung 2000cc engine, to later 2200cc longer stroker due to US consumer's complaining about lack of torque in the middle ranges of the engine. Same happened to the NSX from 3.0 to 3.2 with lower limits and higher mid-range use torque. And if one looks at the compact cars of equivalent bodies, like BMW 3 series, you will also find them 1800cc in most of Japan and Europe, while US versions go only down to 2500 models, with interestingly enough, a bit more complexity in the smaller engines that allow just as high peak HP, but much less torque getting the engine up to those rpm.

BRZ/FRS is such a car, and it has no USA specific changes at this time. It is a global platform right now. If we keep complaining about seeming lack of power in the middle rpm, they may just stroke the engine and get boring at the top end where it shines on the track, to offer more grunt in daily use parameters.

Some of us feel it is nicer with mid-range grunt as most of us are used to this. And others who seek a more traditional and European sophistication in complex internals that can rev high, willingly and make power only near the top. It's one of those things, where we all have preference and not one being better than other but simply how we are used to interacting with automobiles.

I won't say much on actual output and speed rating on any car in this general topic, but let's just say that FRS/BRZ was born from a lot of Japanese and German sense of speed, which is lightweight, agility, and peak high rpm power from lightest compact engine to keep inline with braking and agility as well. So the focus and goals were sort of met (aside from those wishing more complexity and are willing to sacrifice some tactile sensations for raw thrill of boost). The goal was to make the car light, and 2.5L and 3.0L engines would have been more American, but that was more the aim of the tC, a car that is exclusive to the USA, designed specifically for the American daily users.

So we have a choice at Scion basically. tC if you want the bigger size, relatively good handling, and lack of complexity to keep maintenance easy and offer lots of torque in commuting routes. Or, you can choose to pay an extra several thousand bucks, and get an FRS which is built with a bit more sophistication, more expensive materials like the alloys used on the engine, aluminum hood, GOA Hi-Ten steel framework, and a very complex 4D-S that allow 12.5 compression chambers to fire on 91 octane fuels, and produce beautiful notes, driving the fun set of wheels to dance around as a sports car.

If one is building a straight line drag racer, ironically, the tC is actually a better platform despite the FWD, as it can take on huge levels of boost in the 2AZ's hefty block, and displacement is there to make not only larger snails spin, but hold the combustion without cracking a block, or bending a rod. But introduce a few tight corners and long braking zones, and FRS will always gain the ground based on sheer design fitting those roles.

That's why I say the FRS is not for everyone. But to those who appreciate the car for what it is, and modification goals for the owner matches the attribute of intents, then it is one of the best platforms for them. But again, there is a place and a role for the tC who really do want more mundane thrill of simple light to light drag races, and ability to haul a bit more than 4 tires and 2 small folks to the raceway, a this, for a lot less money.

[Bristecom]

I actually feel that a lot of newer sports cars have too much power for the road. They are more serious and typically aren't fun unless you push them to unsafe levels where you might get caught by the police. Of course, I'm probably going to be drifting this thing around every corner so if some d-bag hater cop sees me, he'll probably throw my ass in jail for "reckless driving."

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

I actually feel that a lot of newer sports cars have too much power for the road. They are more serious and typically aren't fun unless you push them to unsafe levels where you might get caught by the police. Of course, I'm probably going to be drifting this thing around every corner so if some d-bag hater cop sees me, he'll probably throw my ass in jail for "reckless driving."

Thank you. Hahah! At least you go to jail, knowing you had skills and understanding of automobile dynamics.
There needs to be more ways we can cater to those coming in to the sport of performance driving, willing to pay a small fee in lieu of going to jail, and gaining skills.

Unfortunately in America, that is being threatened as we speak. Most of the amateur drifting venues have been shut down or are in a constant battle with encroaching real-estate developers who like to see tire noises and rubber smell go away to raise the value of land.

I've spent the last decade establishing a formula, risk management, insurance definitions, venue repair and maintenance estimates, safe and fun driving course designs, curriculum and instructors. However, for every one I accomplished, there were 20 more that got crushed, or some kid fell off a canyon in the mountains that created drama that killed it all. Only thing left now is professional venues, but that is now reserved for corporate ads, rich man's sons, and we are only left with enough resources to spectate them in mad jealousy. This has to change, and FRS is a welcome addition to make more people aware and realize that performance driving can be sane, safe, and reasonable.

I'm sorry, I've digressed from the original topic, haven't I?

[R36 almost]

Originally Posted by moniz

6-7 seconds(depending on various reviews) is slow for you? That's not bad as far as I'm concerned. Sure it's not a drag racer, but then again, that's never been the point of this car.

Love it for what it is, or look elsewhere, but slagging it for not being what YOU want, doesn't make it a bad car or "not worth the money" stock. Just not worth YOUR money is all.

May be i felt it slow because my car is 5.8 sec to 100. And same day an hour earlier i drove my friends 04 jetta 1.8T stage 2. Both are noticeably faster in straight line.

On other hand, if u need power form frs, you HAVE t rev it all the way to 6000. So in daily commute it will be slow, unless u rev it. But them fuel eco will be worse. Seats were very tight, I'm 185lb and 6".

On positive note, the short through shifter was better than BMW e92 m3 and Audi S5. Perfect and precise shift every time.

[moniz]

Originally Posted by R36 almost

May be i felt it slow because my car is 5.8 sec to 100. And same day an hour earlier i drove my friends 04 jetta 1.8T stage 2. Both are noticeably faster in straight line.

On other hand, if u need power form frs, you HAVE t rev it all the way to 6000. So in daily commute it will be slow, unless u rev it. But them fuel eco will be worse. Seats were very tight, I'm 185lb and 6".

On positive note, the short through shifter was better than BMW e92 m3 and Audi S5. Perfect and precise shift every time.

5.8 to 100? What car do you drive? The 1.8T I get, cause it has a little more torque than the FR-S that comes on pretty early, but pretty sure it doesn't handle as well as the FR-S, which is one of it's biggest reasons for being.

[ngabdala]

+1 everything you said about the 9th gen civic si. I have 8th gen 2011. It's a really sweet car and feels very fast.

My next car purchase has to feel faster

Originally Posted by fistpoint

The new Si doesn't even have the VTEC kick anymore. The new Si is pathetic with it's steering light enough for a person having a stroke, to it's soft clutch pedal that pushes itself in from just a slight breeze or an insect landing on it. Or the ridiculous rev-hang that keeps your rpm's up even after you've shifted! What the hell was Honda thinking?!?

The driving pleasure of the previous generations is long gone. Now it's a DX with more HP and accessories. This coming from a 20 year Civic veteran.

[Max Schnell]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

The transmission won't make THAT much of a difference. It doesn't turn it into a completely different car, the auto just has taller gears, but they both have 6 - when you're in the RPMs, you're in the RPMs if you know what I mean....

The FR-S isn't a fast car, it's not meant to be. But we can't really defend it by saying "Oh yeah it's slow because you drove the auto" because that isn't true. This is a sporty car, not a sports car. It runs 15 second 1/4 times, has a below average 0-60 time and will have some "somewhat" decent lap times.

"But this car is for the driver mannnnnnnnnnnn" - Well, okay... but it's still a pretty slow car that's over hyped and over priced.

It's just a car, not a gift from god. - No matter what Toyota and Subaru try to make us believe.

I followed this car for years, but am very disappointed with the final product - Sorry guys

I feel this car is exactly what it was supposed to be. It is hyped but no more so than any new model that is meant to shake things up. We have not seen that in a long time so no surprise there are alot of anticipation and hype.

Transmission will make a difference in 0-60 because autos will limit launch rpm. Once the car is moving not so much difference but that 2500rpm out of powerband launch will kill the 0-60.

There is no accepted definition of "Sports Car". This is one of the most debated topics. There are alot of assumption that "Sports Car" must be fast somehow but its not what necessarily defines a sports car depending on who you talk to.

Overpriced? I think its priced for what it is. Korean cars availability seems to distort perceptions. Remember a 240sx in 1995 with 155hp cost about 23k. Inflation and everything else considered this car is just about right in price.

No one is saying its a gift from anyone. It is however the closest thing to a hardtop Miata which alot of people have been waiting for. Miatas also cost around 25-30k incidentally.

[vtmike]

I traded my neon srt-4 in on a manual FRS and was pleasantly surprised with the low end torque. Moves this light car quickly with instant throttle response. Still not past the break in period so haven't been past 4k rpms yet though. It feels plenty quick to me. If you are worried about straight line speed take an on ramp at 70 mph and feel the car squeeze out every ounce of grip from the prius tires, the zero body role, and perfect steering and you forget about any sluggish straight line speed.

[pr086]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

+1 everything you said about the 9th gen civic si. I have 8th gen 2011. It's a really sweet car and feels very fast.

My next car purchase has to feel faster

i'll be coming from an 8th gen too and i'm worried about this car not feeling as fast. they both have the same idea when it comes to what the car is about. high reving, light weight, handling focused machines. and on paper the frs SHOULD be a little faster. about 150 lbs lighter, and a little more torque.

however it doesn't rev as high or as fast, so i'm a little worried about it not feeling as quick.

[#87]

Originally Posted by djjd42

I'm calling it here and now: This forum's Eternal September has begun. June 1st, I figure.

For the record: I lurked a while before creating an account.

I understand but to me I see everything I like except the power. In that same regard there are plenty of cars you can go buy where you might dislike everything except the power. Which is easier to fix with aftermarket? That is why I bought this car.